Love Meme, Day Seven
Aug. 13th, 2016 12:25 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ladyofleithianDay 07 - The most heartbreaking scene?
-Han's death in TFA. There's Rey's reaction -- one of the Big Nos in Star Wars that's really effective because she just sounds like her heart's been torn out of her chest -- there's Finn's "Solo", there's the look of my-Force-what-have-I-done on Kylo Ren's face (thing about Caedus when he killed Mara Jade was that his moment of heartbreak over it -- it was there but kind of detached, and I'm mostly bringing it up because I'm wondering how much influence LOTF had on TFA. Meanwhile, with Kylo Ren, he just looks like he's in agony the moment he stabs his father, and even the "Thank you" he gives Han sounds anguished), there's Han caressing his son's face before falling into Starkiller Base's pit and the look of horror Ren has when what he's done really sinks in (I can imagine that the two had a very complicated but loving relationship prior to whatever happened that caused a breach) but then there's Leia's reaction back at the base. She's not outright breaking into tears, but the look on her face -- it's pretty clear that her world's just fallen apart.
A lot like the Tenth Doctor in "Doomsday", a lot of the power of that scene is in understatement -- it's very much a case of less-is-more. Leia isn't outright in tears (I have a headcanon that she kind of puts on too much of a "tough girl" facade at times regarding her emotions) but that stricken, heartbroken look on her face pretty much says it all.
-Han and Leia's reunion earlier in TFA. Mostly when Han says, "I saw him. Leia, I saw our son." Honestly, in that regard, Han's less playing Obi-Wan in this film and more Mike Anderson in Storm of the Century -- a loving father who's lost his child to a monster. Because, going back into comparison mode, I don't believe LOTF Han loved his kids. Hell, after stuff like saying that if it were up to him, he'd kill Jacen and pretend that he died in the Battle with Onimi *, and saying that he'd be there to "arm the detonator" regarding Caedus' death, and even joking about his and Leia's "next kids"...I didn't buy that he loved Jacen, and his grieving over Jacen rang incredibly false. But watching the scenes in TFA between Han and Ben/Kylo...goddamn did I believe that he loved him. Even prior to Leia prompting him, in the script, when it comes to Han's line about there being "too much Vader" in his son, it says that he really doesn't want to admit such a thing, like it's too horrible to admit. There's the sound of heartbreak in his voice when he says to Leia that he saw Kylo again. There's the fact that he could have just said Leia was ridiculous for wanting to save Kylo but instead, he saddled up and went on Starkiller Base to save his boy. There's the fact that he's actually close to tears when confronting Kylo again. And there's the fact that he's visibly agitated/thrown into emotional confusion long after Kylo flies off with Rey, and that even though Kylo tries to bury it (and Snoke's programming contributed to burying all this), it's clear that he still loves his father too -- the little tremble in his voice when he insists (read: Kylo Ren Doth Protest Too Much) that Han Solo means nothing to him, the monologue to Vader's helmet (and I kind of theorized that the real "call to the light" was the fact that even after all this time, Kylo still loved his father and because love's a weakness on the Dark Side, he was frightened of it. An interview with Abrams' editors kind of confirmed it), unmasking for Han, the various looks he gives Han...it's clear Leia likely knew that Ren still loved his father, in a way, and that's why she thought that Han could succeed where Luke failed. (And it puts a whole new layer of guilt on that scene because for all intents and purposes, from her point of view, she good as killed Han)
Back to Han and Leia themselves. There's the other scenes, such as Han saying to Leia that he knows that she doesn't want to see him again because she's reminded too much of Ben/Kylo (which, Jesus Christ...what kind of falling out/misunderstanding did they have prior to TFA? I mean, how did Han get to that conclusion? I'm genuinely both confused and...sad for all three of them. Han, Leia and Kylo) and Leia saying she doesn't want to forget him, but wants him back (which is another far cry from LOTF where, in Inferno, Leia doesn't need much persuasion regarding killing her son/her son's an irredeemable bastard), and even saying "there's still light in him" (which...honestly, it ties into the matter of Han needing a little prompting/encouragement to do the right thing, especially at his lowest point, which I say TFA was. He doesn't hate Ben; he's just incredibly heartbroken). And even bits of humor prior to Han's departure -- Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher have always worked well together and this...this is no exception, honestly. You can still feel the leftover warmth in stuff like "No matter how much we fought, I always hated watching you leave" and Han's reply, Leia joking about Han still driving her crazy, stuff like that. All of it being small touches, but it really adds a ton of warmth and love to the pair, which makes Han's death even more heartbreaking. (Then again, JJ Abrams is great at heartbreaking -- I know that Khan's monologue in Into Darkness about what Marcus did really broke my heart, and got me to plain adoring JJ Abrams) And Leia asking Han to bring Kylo/Ben home. Just...gah. The Solo family's really been through hell, but it's well-written hell. It really is. When you even feel some pity for Ren -- well, some do, some don't, I guess -- that...that's definitely the sign of god-tier writing.
(Seriously, the god-tier writing is strong with this one)
-"Doomsday". Honestly, I think that episode of Doctor Who is pretty much synonymous with "heartbreaking romance", from the look of horror in the Doctor's eyes when Rose is taken away just when the breach is sealed, to Rose banging on the wall and sobbing for the Doctor to take her back, to the moment when the two of them press up against the walls of their parallel universes as if they can hear one another just for a moment to pretty much all of Bad Wolf Bay (and like with the Han/Leia scene I mentioned above, there's moments of humor and warmth in there, stuff like Rose's "I can't think of what to say!"...all of it feels incredibly natural, warm, and very much Doctor/Rose -- just having a certain playfulness and closeness and warmth, which is pretty much why I love this pairing to bits) to the message getting cut off...yeah, it's pretty much wrenching from beginning to end. Well-done, Russell T. Davies, and well-done, Billie Piper and David Tennant for delivering awesome performances.
-"Char-you-tree" from The Dark Tower: Wizard and Glass. Basically, it's the death of Susan Delgado, Roland's old love, thanks to certain manipulations that Rhea of the Coos sets up (and God, Rhea...if you thought Palpatine was bad, let's say Rhea gives him some serious competition) when the townspeople basically burn her to death and Roland can't do anything to save her. It's heartwrenching, especially in terms of how well, in my opinion, King set up the romance between Roland and Susan, and how just plain evil he made Rhea, and how lovable he made Susan (she's just a sweetheart), plus the fact Susan really was just a goddamn kid when she died (it's a flashback book, so Roland's fourteen here. I just feel so awful for him too, having to go through all this shit when he's just fourteen. Poor Roland. Poor Susan. And poor Gabrielle, who Rhea basically tricks Roland into murdering because Rhea's just evil). And yet she does get a Moment of Awesome when she dies, declaring her love for Roland even as she's burning to death. That's just...honestly, that's pretty badass.
-Susan Norton's death in Salem's Lot. Honestly, pick a version, from Ben Mears having to stake her and then running out of the house where he did it in horror and grief (and Callahan shows some really awesome empathy here by telling the others, if I remember correctly, to let Ben go) to the 2004 miniseries (which has a lot of issues but it also has some damn good scenes, so...I can't completely hate it) where Susan, in vampire form, tries to persuade Ben over to her side. I mean, Rob Lowe and Samantha Mathis both deliver astounding performances -- with Rob Lowe, you hear the anguish in his voice over what's happened to the woman he's fallen in love with, and with Samantha Mathis, she really does play a tragic monster type beautifully. And Susan saying "I could love you, Ben Mears, if you give me the chance"...Samantha Mathis does an astounding job with that delivery. Manipulative, seductive without being too cliched, tender...it's just beautifully done. Then Ben has to kill her to save Mark Petrie's life and...honestly, I feel awful for all three of them (Mark for already having been through hell, Susan for what happened to her -- and her calling out Ben's name as she's dying is also gutwrenching -- and Ben for losing the love of his life in such a horrifying way). I admit I do like the miniseries version more, though. Call it me having no taste, but I think the miniseries version actually gave Ben and Susan more closure, so to speak, where the book didn't really give them much.
-On the subject of what the 2004 miniseries did right, there's also Eva and Weasel, whose relationship was another highlight of the miniseries. The way it was developed, for starters, the tenderness between them, including when Eva confesses to Weasel about something from her past she's ashamed of (and it feels OOC for Eva, but the actors do a wonderful job in that scene), and Weasel saying that they could have a wonderful rest of their lives ("because loving you from afar was killing me," he tells her. It's one of those moments where when the miniseries gets it right, it gets it really right). And then there's the scene in the church where Weasel's waiting outside, being unable to enter thanks to being vampirized, and Eva goes with him, kinda sorta outside the church, and allows him to turn her so she can be with him. It's a disturbing scene, yet also strangely moving. The 2004 miniseries does have a lot of moments where it fucks up the source material, including the ending, but when it gets things right, goddamn does it get things really right.
10-50-47.JPG?type=w2)
-Dracula telling Mina who he really is in the Francis Ford Coppola version of Dracula. Winona Ryder does a wonderful job of portraying anger, confusion, and leftover affection towards her former love, and Gary Oldman...well, Gary Oldman is in general fantastic, but he really knocks Dracula's monologue about who he is out of the park. Stuff like "there is no life in this body", and...well, this (credit to MovieQuotes for this):
Dracula: I am nothing, lifeless, soulless, hated and feared. I am the dead to all the world...hear me! I am the monster the breathing men would kill. I am Dracula.
I mean, Gary Oldman's accent is atrocious, but he still does an absolutely beautiful job in just portraying Dracula's sorrow in this.
Then there's Mina breaking down when she realizes he's responsible for Lucy's death, and her realizing that she still can't hate him. (I see this Mina, personally, as being torn between her present life and who she used to be, which makes her situation in this movie even worse. That's how I see it, of course) And Dracula narrowly stopping himself from turning Mina.
And then there's his later confrontation with Van Helsing where it's pretty clear how much the experience of losing Elizabeta (it's implied that Mina at least has some of her memories) has outright destroyed him, in more ways than one.
And let's not forget the opening scene where it shows how Dracula became Dracula in the first place.
And the thing is? Aside from the Mina thing, it could actually fit into the original book canon. Dracula mentions offhandedly that he loved once (when one of the Brides accuses him of not knowing love), Van Helsing drops hints that Dracula may have been Vlad the Impaler (I don't know if that was what Stoker was going for, but it all seems too coincidental to be otherwise), and even Mina shows some pity towards Dracula (even after what he did to her!), implying that he's pretty much as damned as his victims. So it could actually fit (with some tweaks) into the original book canon.
-Sion's death. There's what leads up to it, what with the cut content where he asks what exactly Kreia will do to the female Exile (and this is one of many reasons I have a soft spot for the female Exile/Sion pairing; Louis Mellis, who plays Sion, really has this talent for really lowering his voice, making it sort of tender, gentle and intimate regarding the Exile. On this line, he's very soft when he asks what exactly Kreia's going to do to the female Exile) and Kreia sneers at him, even asking if he still has feelings within that shell (just more proof that the Exile really is the one who brings out what's still very human in him. Sort of like Sion still has compassion left over but he's buried it so deep that even he doesn't quite notice), before talking about what exactly she'll do to the Exile (though knowing Kreia, she was likely bluffing just to test Sion, just to see what he'd do), Sion sounding borderline desperate when he tries to persuade the female Exile to leave before Kreia basically destroys everything she is (and it's possible that's what happened to Sion, making previous issues he most likely had worse, even intensifying his sort of codependency on Kreia. He hates her, yet he also yearns for her to be proud of him. It's a pretty tragic situation. And I can imagine he felt a sort of bizarre kinship with the female Exile, which contributed to how he felt), how soft he sounds when he confesses to her (even the voice directions for Sion say that he's trying to describe love during this monologue, sort of like he has no idea how to articulate these emotions -- emotions he's likely embarrassed by as well considering how love is considered one of the worst things a Dark Sider can feel. *** And emotions that could likely kill him), and on "I hate you because you are beautiful to me"...well, the way he delivers it, it might as well be Sion saying "you are the most precious thing in the galaxy". The other stuff, like Sion admitting Kreia's all he has left, that the life he lived wasn't worth it because of all he experienced, etc. really does highlight what a deeply broken man Sion is. And the more bizarre love he has for the female Exile works here because it (unlike Tonks' obsession with Remus, which is portrayed as positive instead of unhealthy) is portrayed as strange, broken, sad and a sign of who Sion really is...angry, having conflicting feelings of both love and hate towards Kreia (he both hates and needs her, at least, and it's not just being ground down by her like Vader was with Palpatine, but sort of like he still needs the sort of approval and respect that she can't give him, and won't **), bitter, worn down by the various battles he's been in and the injuries he's received, a bit of good intentions in him (whatever alignment you set Revan to, he's furious with Revan for running away not only because it destroyed a chance for a Sith Empire, but because Revan seemingly rejected a chance to "heal this broken galaxy", in Sion's words. So there's a bit of the Well-Intentioned Extremist in Sion that I do wish someone elaborated on), vicious towards his enemies, tenacious, cunning, but also not incapable of softer, gentler emotions, even though he prefers to not acknowledge them. And yet it's clear, after he warns the Exile that Kreia will try to destroy her, after he admits that the Exile that she was his weakness as she's also Kreia's (and Kreia even admits it after the final battle, saying she would have killed the galaxy to preserve the Exile. It's like with Sion, the Exile was the last spark of humanity in her), that he's finally at peace after all that's happened. It's really a striking difference between the first KOTOR and the second -- Malak died believing he was damned, that he was nothing, all while Revan...honestly didn't show much compassion to him (which isn't right. I mean, it's said explicitly in the backstory that they were friends but hardly any of it really leaks through. Malachor, for all its darkness, has enough moments of light and warmth to fill a goddamn room during, of all things, the boss battles, while the Star Forge confrontation with Malak is very cold, and on the LS path, it's like Revan's acting self-righteous without acknowledging any of his/her mistakes or even his/her role in corrupting Malak -- which isn't right, because it's even said in the backstory that the reason Malak fell was because Revan did. Like he would have followed Revan across galaxies if Revan asked him to, and it's especially jarring considering that part of the game's theme -- if you're Light Side -- is Revan taking responsibility for what he/she did and trying to fix it, so the whole "yeah, I corrupted you but it's your own damn fault nonetheless I'm more righteous than you lulz" just feels completely out of place) while Sion at least died at peace with someone who felt compassion for him (and even if you're a male Exile, where it's more of a straightforward rivalry, it still works) by his side. Maybe that's why Sion's death, while sad, gives me more of a sense of closure than Malak's: Sion died in peace, free of any more manipulation or pain or anything, while Malak basically died while Revan was basically taunting him (on either path, really) about how he/she was superior, and it just doesn't feel right. Bioware didn't really show compassion to Malak, but I think in that moment, Obsidian definitely showed compassion to Sion.
Courtesy of aimo herself, as this bit of art is beautiful.
-Atton's death at the hands of Sion, in cut content, especially his confession of love to the Exile as he dies in her arms. Nicky Katt (who voices Atton) does a spectacular job here, especially with stuff like "Tried to play it off as a joke...wasn't funny" (about his falling for the Exile. It's kind of one way he's similar to Sion -- they have different ways of covering up their emotions, but they still do it), and some of the Exile's dialogue options, including "You didn't have to tell me, Atton. I already knew." She pretty much knew the whole time how Atton felt. It's just a generally beautifully written, well-acted scene.
-Bastila's cameo in KOTOR II if you romanced her in the first game. From her hologram to her admitting she never understood why Revan left to even a Dark Side hologram (if Revan's Dark Side) that shows how devoted she is to Revan (Even Evil Has Loved Ones, after all). Jennifer Hale does a beautiful job conveying that devotion and pain and strength Bastila has, all while keeping it very subdued.
And for a bonus mod:
-Carth's cameo if you romanced him in the first game. From the holograms (both Light Side and Dark Side are just heartwrenching) to his meeting with the Exile if Revan's Light Side, Raphael Sbarge did a beautiful job with Carth.
And for a bonus mod:
-The Dark Side female ending for KOTOR, where Carth shows up and tries to talk Revan down. Even though he ultimately dies for it, he still loves Revan enough to try and save her, which is definitely something considering how he reacts after Saul Karath drops the bombshell of who exactly Revan is.
-"The Prince's Tale". This was, both book and movie-wise, what really got me sympathizing with Snape. The second Deathly Hallows movie really added a nice touch, with Snape holding Lily's body and sobbing uncontrollably. Well-done, Alan Rickman. Seriously.
-Aragorn's rejection of Eowyn. I mean, I am more of an Aragorn/Arwen girl, but the look on Eowyn's face is just heartbreaking to see.
-Jadzia's death in "Tears of the Prophets". Also known as a character death that was seriously, seriously not fair. Worf's howl doesn't help matters, nor do her last words.
-Martha's speech to the crowd about the Doctor in "Last of the Time Lords". Freema Agyema is amazing. Especially on the "I know him...I love him" bit. I am more of a Doctor/Rose person, but you can just hear in Martha's voice how much she loves the Doctor, genuinely loves him, and it's genuinely moving.
-Ianto's death in Children of Earth. Like with Jadzia's death, seriously not fair. Jack's reaction (and later Gwen's) didn't help.
-Wash's death in Serenity, especially Zoe's reaction to it.
-Anakin and Padme's confrontation on Mustafar. What's really horrible about it is how Anakin ended up good as killing Padme via his own good intentions gone horribly awry, and Padme has to watch as her husband basically turns into something he really, really isn't.
-Beast's near-death experience in Beauty and the Beast. It's a genuine moment where you think that all is lost, and even though things turn out okay in the end, the fact that it really was such a near-miss is pulled off amazingly well. And Belle pleading with him not to leave her -- Paige O'Hara really did knock it out of the ballpark in that scene. And then...well, then comes the transformation.
-From the TV miniseries Storm of the Century, it's after the antagonist, Andre Linoge, reveals what he wants and the town itself is divided over it. There's a scene where the protagonist, Mike Anderson, is basically trying to reason with the townspeople that they shouldn't do this, that they should stand up to Linoge (and yet I can understand why the townspeople are doing this; Linoge has basically backed them into a corner and terrified and isolated them enough for them to be willing to do what it takes to save themselves and their children, as...let's say Linoge's plan involves one of their kids), and his wife, Molly, basically stands against him. And later, when she tries to comfort Mike after a brawl in the town meeting that gets out of control, and he tells her to get away from him -- let's say that that bit is just gutwrenching, how it's played out. And the fact that Stephen King (yes, another Stephen King example; I must read him too much) gives the both of them good reasons -- they want to protect their town, just in different ways. Molly doesn't want to see the kids under her care in danger, Mike wants to protect his town and the kids and the town's integrity -- really makes it even worse, honestly. Let's just say the whole ending of Storm of the Century -- I love the miniseries, but I don't think I could ever, ever watch the ending in its entirety ever again. (And yeah, I'd say at least one part of it falls under the category of romantic, with Molly and Mike)
There's likely more, but those are the most heartbreaking scenes I can think of off the top of my head.
* It's just one of the most unforgivable things you could ever, ever say to your own child. Ever.
** Also something else I realized is that Sion really acts like...well, he acts a lot like someone who's been abused. Mostly in how he reverts into being the compliant apprentice at Malachor, after Kreia Force chokes him, and when he admits to the Exile that Kreia is basically all he has left. Add in the comments about "breaking", and what Kreia's capable of, and it's likely that Kreia's been psychologically abusing Sion for years on end (depending on when their paths first crossed) just like she psychologically abused Atton, Mical, etc. under the Exile's nose. Emphasis on "likely", of course. Visas is pretty obvious as an abuse metaphor and on recovery from abuse (including the lies Nihilus fed her, such as "nobody cares if you get hurt", "you're my property", "I'm all-powerful", "you're worthless", etc. He didn't really tell her that, but just through his actions, he conveyed those messages to her enough to break her down), but I think Sion also has bits of that metaphor in him.
*** Which is another place where the Jedi and Sith are pretty alike. They just have different reasons for why they think loving someone is one of the worst things you can do.
Day 08 - The pairing with the most baggage?
Day 09 - The most believable relationship?
Day 10 - The least believable relationship?
Day 11 - Your dream pairing?
Day 12 - Who had the best wedding?
Day 13 - Your favorite television pairing?
Day 14 - What is your favorite book pairing?
Day 15 - What is your favorite real life pairing?
Day 16 - What is the absolute worst pairing?
Day 17 - A pairing you thought would never work out, but did?
Day 18 - What is the cutest pairing?
Day 19 - A pairing you’ve rooted for since the beginning?
Day 20 - The 'can't stand the sexual tension anymore' pairing?
Day 21 - A pairing you like and no one else understands why?
Day 22 - A pairing you hate and no one else understands why?
Day 23 - A crazy love triangle/quadrilateral that worked out great?
Day 24 - A crazy love triangle/quadrilateral that worked out badly?
Day 25 - A pairing that was/would-be adorable, but could never work out?
Day 26 - A pairing that you hated and ended up loving?
Day 27 - A pairing that you loved and ended up hating?
Day 28 - A pairing that you will never understand?
Day 29 - What ship had the best proposal?
Day 30 - Your favorite ship forever and ever and ever!
-Han's death in TFA. There's Rey's reaction -- one of the Big Nos in Star Wars that's really effective because she just sounds like her heart's been torn out of her chest -- there's Finn's "Solo", there's the look of my-Force-what-have-I-done on Kylo Ren's face (thing about Caedus when he killed Mara Jade was that his moment of heartbreak over it -- it was there but kind of detached, and I'm mostly bringing it up because I'm wondering how much influence LOTF had on TFA. Meanwhile, with Kylo Ren, he just looks like he's in agony the moment he stabs his father, and even the "Thank you" he gives Han sounds anguished), there's Han caressing his son's face before falling into Starkiller Base's pit and the look of horror Ren has when what he's done really sinks in (I can imagine that the two had a very complicated but loving relationship prior to whatever happened that caused a breach) but then there's Leia's reaction back at the base. She's not outright breaking into tears, but the look on her face -- it's pretty clear that her world's just fallen apart.
A lot like the Tenth Doctor in "Doomsday", a lot of the power of that scene is in understatement -- it's very much a case of less-is-more. Leia isn't outright in tears (I have a headcanon that she kind of puts on too much of a "tough girl" facade at times regarding her emotions) but that stricken, heartbroken look on her face pretty much says it all.
-Han and Leia's reunion earlier in TFA. Mostly when Han says, "I saw him. Leia, I saw our son." Honestly, in that regard, Han's less playing Obi-Wan in this film and more Mike Anderson in Storm of the Century -- a loving father who's lost his child to a monster. Because, going back into comparison mode, I don't believe LOTF Han loved his kids. Hell, after stuff like saying that if it were up to him, he'd kill Jacen and pretend that he died in the Battle with Onimi *, and saying that he'd be there to "arm the detonator" regarding Caedus' death, and even joking about his and Leia's "next kids"...I didn't buy that he loved Jacen, and his grieving over Jacen rang incredibly false. But watching the scenes in TFA between Han and Ben/Kylo...goddamn did I believe that he loved him. Even prior to Leia prompting him, in the script, when it comes to Han's line about there being "too much Vader" in his son, it says that he really doesn't want to admit such a thing, like it's too horrible to admit. There's the sound of heartbreak in his voice when he says to Leia that he saw Kylo again. There's the fact that he could have just said Leia was ridiculous for wanting to save Kylo but instead, he saddled up and went on Starkiller Base to save his boy. There's the fact that he's actually close to tears when confronting Kylo again. And there's the fact that he's visibly agitated/thrown into emotional confusion long after Kylo flies off with Rey, and that even though Kylo tries to bury it (and Snoke's programming contributed to burying all this), it's clear that he still loves his father too -- the little tremble in his voice when he insists (read: Kylo Ren Doth Protest Too Much) that Han Solo means nothing to him, the monologue to Vader's helmet (and I kind of theorized that the real "call to the light" was the fact that even after all this time, Kylo still loved his father and because love's a weakness on the Dark Side, he was frightened of it. An interview with Abrams' editors kind of confirmed it), unmasking for Han, the various looks he gives Han...it's clear Leia likely knew that Ren still loved his father, in a way, and that's why she thought that Han could succeed where Luke failed. (And it puts a whole new layer of guilt on that scene because for all intents and purposes, from her point of view, she good as killed Han)
Back to Han and Leia themselves. There's the other scenes, such as Han saying to Leia that he knows that she doesn't want to see him again because she's reminded too much of Ben/Kylo (which, Jesus Christ...what kind of falling out/misunderstanding did they have prior to TFA? I mean, how did Han get to that conclusion? I'm genuinely both confused and...sad for all three of them. Han, Leia and Kylo) and Leia saying she doesn't want to forget him, but wants him back (which is another far cry from LOTF where, in Inferno, Leia doesn't need much persuasion regarding killing her son/her son's an irredeemable bastard), and even saying "there's still light in him" (which...honestly, it ties into the matter of Han needing a little prompting/encouragement to do the right thing, especially at his lowest point, which I say TFA was. He doesn't hate Ben; he's just incredibly heartbroken). And even bits of humor prior to Han's departure -- Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher have always worked well together and this...this is no exception, honestly. You can still feel the leftover warmth in stuff like "No matter how much we fought, I always hated watching you leave" and Han's reply, Leia joking about Han still driving her crazy, stuff like that. All of it being small touches, but it really adds a ton of warmth and love to the pair, which makes Han's death even more heartbreaking. (Then again, JJ Abrams is great at heartbreaking -- I know that Khan's monologue in Into Darkness about what Marcus did really broke my heart, and got me to plain adoring JJ Abrams) And Leia asking Han to bring Kylo/Ben home. Just...gah. The Solo family's really been through hell, but it's well-written hell. It really is. When you even feel some pity for Ren -- well, some do, some don't, I guess -- that...that's definitely the sign of god-tier writing.
(Seriously, the god-tier writing is strong with this one)
-"Doomsday". Honestly, I think that episode of Doctor Who is pretty much synonymous with "heartbreaking romance", from the look of horror in the Doctor's eyes when Rose is taken away just when the breach is sealed, to Rose banging on the wall and sobbing for the Doctor to take her back, to the moment when the two of them press up against the walls of their parallel universes as if they can hear one another just for a moment to pretty much all of Bad Wolf Bay (and like with the Han/Leia scene I mentioned above, there's moments of humor and warmth in there, stuff like Rose's "I can't think of what to say!"...all of it feels incredibly natural, warm, and very much Doctor/Rose -- just having a certain playfulness and closeness and warmth, which is pretty much why I love this pairing to bits) to the message getting cut off...yeah, it's pretty much wrenching from beginning to end. Well-done, Russell T. Davies, and well-done, Billie Piper and David Tennant for delivering awesome performances.
-"Char-you-tree" from The Dark Tower: Wizard and Glass. Basically, it's the death of Susan Delgado, Roland's old love, thanks to certain manipulations that Rhea of the Coos sets up (and God, Rhea...if you thought Palpatine was bad, let's say Rhea gives him some serious competition) when the townspeople basically burn her to death and Roland can't do anything to save her. It's heartwrenching, especially in terms of how well, in my opinion, King set up the romance between Roland and Susan, and how just plain evil he made Rhea, and how lovable he made Susan (she's just a sweetheart), plus the fact Susan really was just a goddamn kid when she died (it's a flashback book, so Roland's fourteen here. I just feel so awful for him too, having to go through all this shit when he's just fourteen. Poor Roland. Poor Susan. And poor Gabrielle, who Rhea basically tricks Roland into murdering because Rhea's just evil). And yet she does get a Moment of Awesome when she dies, declaring her love for Roland even as she's burning to death. That's just...honestly, that's pretty badass.
-Susan Norton's death in Salem's Lot. Honestly, pick a version, from Ben Mears having to stake her and then running out of the house where he did it in horror and grief (and Callahan shows some really awesome empathy here by telling the others, if I remember correctly, to let Ben go) to the 2004 miniseries (which has a lot of issues but it also has some damn good scenes, so...I can't completely hate it) where Susan, in vampire form, tries to persuade Ben over to her side. I mean, Rob Lowe and Samantha Mathis both deliver astounding performances -- with Rob Lowe, you hear the anguish in his voice over what's happened to the woman he's fallen in love with, and with Samantha Mathis, she really does play a tragic monster type beautifully. And Susan saying "I could love you, Ben Mears, if you give me the chance"...Samantha Mathis does an astounding job with that delivery. Manipulative, seductive without being too cliched, tender...it's just beautifully done. Then Ben has to kill her to save Mark Petrie's life and...honestly, I feel awful for all three of them (Mark for already having been through hell, Susan for what happened to her -- and her calling out Ben's name as she's dying is also gutwrenching -- and Ben for losing the love of his life in such a horrifying way). I admit I do like the miniseries version more, though. Call it me having no taste, but I think the miniseries version actually gave Ben and Susan more closure, so to speak, where the book didn't really give them much.
-On the subject of what the 2004 miniseries did right, there's also Eva and Weasel, whose relationship was another highlight of the miniseries. The way it was developed, for starters, the tenderness between them, including when Eva confesses to Weasel about something from her past she's ashamed of (and it feels OOC for Eva, but the actors do a wonderful job in that scene), and Weasel saying that they could have a wonderful rest of their lives ("because loving you from afar was killing me," he tells her. It's one of those moments where when the miniseries gets it right, it gets it really right). And then there's the scene in the church where Weasel's waiting outside, being unable to enter thanks to being vampirized, and Eva goes with him, kinda sorta outside the church, and allows him to turn her so she can be with him. It's a disturbing scene, yet also strangely moving. The 2004 miniseries does have a lot of moments where it fucks up the source material, including the ending, but when it gets things right, goddamn does it get things really right.
-Dracula telling Mina who he really is in the Francis Ford Coppola version of Dracula. Winona Ryder does a wonderful job of portraying anger, confusion, and leftover affection towards her former love, and Gary Oldman...well, Gary Oldman is in general fantastic, but he really knocks Dracula's monologue about who he is out of the park. Stuff like "there is no life in this body", and...well, this (credit to MovieQuotes for this):
Dracula: I am nothing, lifeless, soulless, hated and feared. I am the dead to all the world...hear me! I am the monster the breathing men would kill. I am Dracula.
I mean, Gary Oldman's accent is atrocious, but he still does an absolutely beautiful job in just portraying Dracula's sorrow in this.
Then there's Mina breaking down when she realizes he's responsible for Lucy's death, and her realizing that she still can't hate him. (I see this Mina, personally, as being torn between her present life and who she used to be, which makes her situation in this movie even worse. That's how I see it, of course) And Dracula narrowly stopping himself from turning Mina.
And then there's his later confrontation with Van Helsing where it's pretty clear how much the experience of losing Elizabeta (it's implied that Mina at least has some of her memories) has outright destroyed him, in more ways than one.
And let's not forget the opening scene where it shows how Dracula became Dracula in the first place.
And the thing is? Aside from the Mina thing, it could actually fit into the original book canon. Dracula mentions offhandedly that he loved once (when one of the Brides accuses him of not knowing love), Van Helsing drops hints that Dracula may have been Vlad the Impaler (I don't know if that was what Stoker was going for, but it all seems too coincidental to be otherwise), and even Mina shows some pity towards Dracula (even after what he did to her!), implying that he's pretty much as damned as his victims. So it could actually fit (with some tweaks) into the original book canon.
-Sion's death. There's what leads up to it, what with the cut content where he asks what exactly Kreia will do to the female Exile (and this is one of many reasons I have a soft spot for the female Exile/Sion pairing; Louis Mellis, who plays Sion, really has this talent for really lowering his voice, making it sort of tender, gentle and intimate regarding the Exile. On this line, he's very soft when he asks what exactly Kreia's going to do to the female Exile) and Kreia sneers at him, even asking if he still has feelings within that shell (just more proof that the Exile really is the one who brings out what's still very human in him. Sort of like Sion still has compassion left over but he's buried it so deep that even he doesn't quite notice), before talking about what exactly she'll do to the Exile (though knowing Kreia, she was likely bluffing just to test Sion, just to see what he'd do), Sion sounding borderline desperate when he tries to persuade the female Exile to leave before Kreia basically destroys everything she is (and it's possible that's what happened to Sion, making previous issues he most likely had worse, even intensifying his sort of codependency on Kreia. He hates her, yet he also yearns for her to be proud of him. It's a pretty tragic situation. And I can imagine he felt a sort of bizarre kinship with the female Exile, which contributed to how he felt), how soft he sounds when he confesses to her (even the voice directions for Sion say that he's trying to describe love during this monologue, sort of like he has no idea how to articulate these emotions -- emotions he's likely embarrassed by as well considering how love is considered one of the worst things a Dark Sider can feel. *** And emotions that could likely kill him), and on "I hate you because you are beautiful to me"...well, the way he delivers it, it might as well be Sion saying "you are the most precious thing in the galaxy". The other stuff, like Sion admitting Kreia's all he has left, that the life he lived wasn't worth it because of all he experienced, etc. really does highlight what a deeply broken man Sion is. And the more bizarre love he has for the female Exile works here because it (unlike Tonks' obsession with Remus, which is portrayed as positive instead of unhealthy) is portrayed as strange, broken, sad and a sign of who Sion really is...angry, having conflicting feelings of both love and hate towards Kreia (he both hates and needs her, at least, and it's not just being ground down by her like Vader was with Palpatine, but sort of like he still needs the sort of approval and respect that she can't give him, and won't **), bitter, worn down by the various battles he's been in and the injuries he's received, a bit of good intentions in him (whatever alignment you set Revan to, he's furious with Revan for running away not only because it destroyed a chance for a Sith Empire, but because Revan seemingly rejected a chance to "heal this broken galaxy", in Sion's words. So there's a bit of the Well-Intentioned Extremist in Sion that I do wish someone elaborated on), vicious towards his enemies, tenacious, cunning, but also not incapable of softer, gentler emotions, even though he prefers to not acknowledge them. And yet it's clear, after he warns the Exile that Kreia will try to destroy her, after he admits that the Exile that she was his weakness as she's also Kreia's (and Kreia even admits it after the final battle, saying she would have killed the galaxy to preserve the Exile. It's like with Sion, the Exile was the last spark of humanity in her), that he's finally at peace after all that's happened. It's really a striking difference between the first KOTOR and the second -- Malak died believing he was damned, that he was nothing, all while Revan...honestly didn't show much compassion to him (which isn't right. I mean, it's said explicitly in the backstory that they were friends but hardly any of it really leaks through. Malachor, for all its darkness, has enough moments of light and warmth to fill a goddamn room during, of all things, the boss battles, while the Star Forge confrontation with Malak is very cold, and on the LS path, it's like Revan's acting self-righteous without acknowledging any of his/her mistakes or even his/her role in corrupting Malak -- which isn't right, because it's even said in the backstory that the reason Malak fell was because Revan did. Like he would have followed Revan across galaxies if Revan asked him to, and it's especially jarring considering that part of the game's theme -- if you're Light Side -- is Revan taking responsibility for what he/she did and trying to fix it, so the whole "yeah, I corrupted you but it's your own damn fault nonetheless I'm more righteous than you lulz" just feels completely out of place) while Sion at least died at peace with someone who felt compassion for him (and even if you're a male Exile, where it's more of a straightforward rivalry, it still works) by his side. Maybe that's why Sion's death, while sad, gives me more of a sense of closure than Malak's: Sion died in peace, free of any more manipulation or pain or anything, while Malak basically died while Revan was basically taunting him (on either path, really) about how he/she was superior, and it just doesn't feel right. Bioware didn't really show compassion to Malak, but I think in that moment, Obsidian definitely showed compassion to Sion.
Courtesy of aimo herself, as this bit of art is beautiful.
-Atton's death at the hands of Sion, in cut content, especially his confession of love to the Exile as he dies in her arms. Nicky Katt (who voices Atton) does a spectacular job here, especially with stuff like "Tried to play it off as a joke...wasn't funny" (about his falling for the Exile. It's kind of one way he's similar to Sion -- they have different ways of covering up their emotions, but they still do it), and some of the Exile's dialogue options, including "You didn't have to tell me, Atton. I already knew." She pretty much knew the whole time how Atton felt. It's just a generally beautifully written, well-acted scene.
-Bastila's cameo in KOTOR II if you romanced her in the first game. From her hologram to her admitting she never understood why Revan left to even a Dark Side hologram (if Revan's Dark Side) that shows how devoted she is to Revan (Even Evil Has Loved Ones, after all). Jennifer Hale does a beautiful job conveying that devotion and pain and strength Bastila has, all while keeping it very subdued.
And for a bonus mod:
-Carth's cameo if you romanced him in the first game. From the holograms (both Light Side and Dark Side are just heartwrenching) to his meeting with the Exile if Revan's Light Side, Raphael Sbarge did a beautiful job with Carth.
And for a bonus mod:
-The Dark Side female ending for KOTOR, where Carth shows up and tries to talk Revan down. Even though he ultimately dies for it, he still loves Revan enough to try and save her, which is definitely something considering how he reacts after Saul Karath drops the bombshell of who exactly Revan is.
-"The Prince's Tale". This was, both book and movie-wise, what really got me sympathizing with Snape. The second Deathly Hallows movie really added a nice touch, with Snape holding Lily's body and sobbing uncontrollably. Well-done, Alan Rickman. Seriously.
-Aragorn's rejection of Eowyn. I mean, I am more of an Aragorn/Arwen girl, but the look on Eowyn's face is just heartbreaking to see.
-Jadzia's death in "Tears of the Prophets". Also known as a character death that was seriously, seriously not fair. Worf's howl doesn't help matters, nor do her last words.
-Martha's speech to the crowd about the Doctor in "Last of the Time Lords". Freema Agyema is amazing. Especially on the "I know him...I love him" bit. I am more of a Doctor/Rose person, but you can just hear in Martha's voice how much she loves the Doctor, genuinely loves him, and it's genuinely moving.
-Ianto's death in Children of Earth. Like with Jadzia's death, seriously not fair. Jack's reaction (and later Gwen's) didn't help.
-Wash's death in Serenity, especially Zoe's reaction to it.
-Anakin and Padme's confrontation on Mustafar. What's really horrible about it is how Anakin ended up good as killing Padme via his own good intentions gone horribly awry, and Padme has to watch as her husband basically turns into something he really, really isn't.
-Beast's near-death experience in Beauty and the Beast. It's a genuine moment where you think that all is lost, and even though things turn out okay in the end, the fact that it really was such a near-miss is pulled off amazingly well. And Belle pleading with him not to leave her -- Paige O'Hara really did knock it out of the ballpark in that scene. And then...well, then comes the transformation.
-From the TV miniseries Storm of the Century, it's after the antagonist, Andre Linoge, reveals what he wants and the town itself is divided over it. There's a scene where the protagonist, Mike Anderson, is basically trying to reason with the townspeople that they shouldn't do this, that they should stand up to Linoge (and yet I can understand why the townspeople are doing this; Linoge has basically backed them into a corner and terrified and isolated them enough for them to be willing to do what it takes to save themselves and their children, as...let's say Linoge's plan involves one of their kids), and his wife, Molly, basically stands against him. And later, when she tries to comfort Mike after a brawl in the town meeting that gets out of control, and he tells her to get away from him -- let's say that that bit is just gutwrenching, how it's played out. And the fact that Stephen King (yes, another Stephen King example; I must read him too much) gives the both of them good reasons -- they want to protect their town, just in different ways. Molly doesn't want to see the kids under her care in danger, Mike wants to protect his town and the kids and the town's integrity -- really makes it even worse, honestly. Let's just say the whole ending of Storm of the Century -- I love the miniseries, but I don't think I could ever, ever watch the ending in its entirety ever again. (And yeah, I'd say at least one part of it falls under the category of romantic, with Molly and Mike)
There's likely more, but those are the most heartbreaking scenes I can think of off the top of my head.
* It's just one of the most unforgivable things you could ever, ever say to your own child. Ever.
** Also something else I realized is that Sion really acts like...well, he acts a lot like someone who's been abused. Mostly in how he reverts into being the compliant apprentice at Malachor, after Kreia Force chokes him, and when he admits to the Exile that Kreia is basically all he has left. Add in the comments about "breaking", and what Kreia's capable of, and it's likely that Kreia's been psychologically abusing Sion for years on end (depending on when their paths first crossed) just like she psychologically abused Atton, Mical, etc. under the Exile's nose. Emphasis on "likely", of course. Visas is pretty obvious as an abuse metaphor and on recovery from abuse (including the lies Nihilus fed her, such as "nobody cares if you get hurt", "you're my property", "I'm all-powerful", "you're worthless", etc. He didn't really tell her that, but just through his actions, he conveyed those messages to her enough to break her down), but I think Sion also has bits of that metaphor in him.
*** Which is another place where the Jedi and Sith are pretty alike. They just have different reasons for why they think loving someone is one of the worst things you can do.
Day 08 - The pairing with the most baggage?
Day 09 - The most believable relationship?
Day 10 - The least believable relationship?
Day 11 - Your dream pairing?
Day 12 - Who had the best wedding?
Day 13 - Your favorite television pairing?
Day 14 - What is your favorite book pairing?
Day 15 - What is your favorite real life pairing?
Day 16 - What is the absolute worst pairing?
Day 17 - A pairing you thought would never work out, but did?
Day 18 - What is the cutest pairing?
Day 19 - A pairing you’ve rooted for since the beginning?
Day 20 - The 'can't stand the sexual tension anymore' pairing?
Day 21 - A pairing you like and no one else understands why?
Day 22 - A pairing you hate and no one else understands why?
Day 23 - A crazy love triangle/quadrilateral that worked out great?
Day 24 - A crazy love triangle/quadrilateral that worked out badly?
Day 25 - A pairing that was/would-be adorable, but could never work out?
Day 26 - A pairing that you hated and ended up loving?
Day 27 - A pairing that you loved and ended up hating?
Day 28 - A pairing that you will never understand?
Day 29 - What ship had the best proposal?
Day 30 - Your favorite ship forever and ever and ever!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2016-08-13 12:34 pm (UTC)Rhea of Coos was frustrating because she could have been so much more. A Kreia character, who is beneficial in dark wisdom, as well as a tortured badness. Instead she came out as a 2 dimensional witch, which read as King's misunderstanding or experimenting with themes from the book, Women Who Run with the Wolves (you should read that- it's about feminist takes on old fairy tales) She could have been like how Baba Yaga is portrayed by Estes, dark, powerful, mysterious, seemingly evil, but ultimately who gives women the strength and deeper wisdom to grow stronger and wiser.
The Storm of the Century is about moral cowardice, the nature of humans, along the theme of The Lottery, by Shirley Jackson, who was an early influence on King. The townspeople were very willing to sacrifice a child, as long as it wasn't their own. But Mike was right- if the townspeople stood up against Linoge in unison, Linoge would have been defeated. That is the nature of the classical demonic power- which Linoge was revealed to be as the biblical Legion (Stephen King is very well read with the Bible). He could have been defeated, but the townspeople cowered in fear, thinking they were putting their children first, but they were not. They were putting their fear first. Which was tragic, because if they had fought, no child would have been sacrificed.
I didn't feel bad for Molly at all. She made her choice and she has to live with it if she has any character at all. I felt really bad for Mike because he stood up for what was right, and it was his child who got taken away and distorted into what Linoge wants the boy to be. Of course Linoge was after his son all along. The rest of it was terrorizing and isolating the townspeople into compliance.
My daughter found this miniseries very upsetting because she saw right away that these people were willing to sacrifice a child. There's a lot of social commentary here, too. One that I will not go into because of a certain large sector of today's population who is fanatical about a certain subject and will not listen to reason out of fear.
Sion and Visas are great characters because of their complexity. I should finish this play through of K2. I have it fully modded with all the extra content and it's good.
I'll probably think of a lot more to say.
Very very good post.
One scene that I always liked- it's not heartbreaking, but very- I don't know how to say it- but in Dark Crystal when the urSkeks tell Jen to revive Kira with his heart.
Sorry if this makes zero sense; sleep deprivation again
Date: 2016-08-13 05:37 pm (UTC)Very interesting regarding Rhea. I might have to pick up that book you mentioned sometime; it definitely could help me out in terms of constructing my own stories. And I think her being a Kreia-ish character could have been interesting too -- she definitely has a promise of an interesting backstory after all (Rhea, that is, though Kreia's backstory definitely sounds interesting too). I guess I was just so busy when, while I was first reading Wizard and Glass, pretty much being on edge regarding her manipulations (I just remember being so anxious during some of the bits of her manipulating Susan. And being angry on Susan's behalf as well, that poor kid), that I didn't really think much about it. So Rhea being a Kreia-ish character could definitely work.
It really is. (And ah, The Lottery! I remember reading it in my freshman or sophomore year of high school...let's say that ending really sticks with you) And it definitely is about what people are capable of in their worst moments, what they'll do in the name of feeling safe (and, as they justify it, other people feeling safe), stuff like that.
And very well-said about Linoge! I think that's why he went to all the trouble of just plain terrorizing the townsfolk -- if he'd just outright stated what he wanted, he would have already lost. But by the time he did the majority of his terrorism, quite a few of the townspeople were dead, a lot of the island was destroyed (I don't know if it was Linoge causing the storm, or if it was just coincidental that Little Tall Island happened to be having a really awful blizzard when he dropped by), etc., and the townspeople were feeling cut off, isolated, and frightened enough to basically do the unthinkable (I'm just thinking about how Ursula Godsoe's just pleading with Linoge to spare her daughter, in the wake of her husband's death, and it really sinks in how much Linoge has just crushed the townspeople psychologically. I think all of them were part of this collective helplessness, and so it made things easier for Linoge to get what he wanted). And I actually think in a way, Linoge was also trying to prove a point to Mike -- I'm thinking of a scene earlier in the miniseries when he tells Mike that "the good is an illusion" (also, yeesh, tell us how you really feel, Linoge) and then, when Mike objects, Linoge says, "I know. A good boy to the last. But I think you'll find yourself on the short end this time." I've always found that bit really interesting, just the way that Linoge basically admits (in my interpretation) that Mike really is the only good person on Little Tall (I've always found their dynamic intriguing, and even moreso considering that I think it's the only straightforward good vs. evil dynamic in King's works...that I've read so far). But I think he was also using that against Mike just to prove to him that not only can he take Mike's son away (and here's something else I'm wondering about: the fairy saddle. It's said outright in the original script that's why Linoge favored Ralphie, but I have a feeling that there's more to it than that) but that he can prove Mike's idealism wrong in one fell swoop. Just by isolating Mike, depriving him of allies, and all by just using the townspeople's actions. It's pretty terrifying.
Your daughter saw the miniseries? I admit I didn't know that. I find it pretty unsettling too -- not just because of the sacrificing a kid aspect, but also because Linoge...in a way, it's kind of like he's a mirror held up to the townsfolk to expose their faults, their fears, the worst things they've done, stuff like that. I think the most effective part of the horror isn't just Linoge, but the townspeople themselves.
And very well-said about Sion and Visas! And you have the TSLRCM? That's awesome! I mean, KOTOR II unmodded is still great, but with the TSLRCM...it really does feel like the Director's Cut of the game, what it was meant to be.
And again, thanks! And I'm going to have to rewatch The Dark Crystal, I really am. :)
Re: Sorry if this makes zero sense; sleep deprivation again
Date: 2016-08-13 06:06 pm (UTC)You really should read Women Who Run with the Wolves. Especially as you write a lot. I think you'll get a lot out of it.
Linoge was a piece of work. He favored Ralphie because of his dad, that Ralphie would take on a lot of his dad's characteristics- one thing about evil, particularly biblical evil, is that it is always drawn to the most good. The fairy saddle is kind of reminiscent of the mark of the beast to me (Damien Omen)- not that the kid was inherently evil, but the symbolism. Mike isn't just idealistic, he has a lot of character. As constable, he's probably been tested before, and has a clear concept of good and evil, whereas the rest of the townsfolk have never been truly tested in their lives- they don't have the kind of character Mike has. They don't have that inner resolve. I think Ralphie would have grown up to be the same. Evil loves to corrupt the most good, which is why it's drawn to it. Interestingly I think those kind of characteristics make a better villain- like how a Jedi with a lot of character and strength turns into a superior Sith Lord.
If you think Linoge is good, wait till you read about Randall Flagg. If you like the good vs evil by King, read the Stand. Read the uncut version of it. It's long, but never boring. The symbolisms are great and King's knowledge of the Bible and some Christian teachings make it very interesting. Randall Flagg is also in Eye of the Dragon, a fantasy story I know you will like.
Re: Sorry if this makes zero sense; sleep deprivation again
Date: 2016-08-13 09:56 pm (UTC)I'll definitely check that out! Thanks!
And good point about Ralphie and Mike both. Mike's likely had to deal with evil before -- maybe not on Linoge's scale, but definitely evil nonetheless. Add in Linoge's comment about Mike being a "good boy to the last" and...well, one could infer why he's drawn to both corrupting Ralphie and the rivalry between him and Mike.
And have read The Stand. Does love immensely, and Randall Flagg is awesome. :3 Have read Eyes of the Dragon as well, which he's also awesome in. He's an interesting character, Flagg -- and awesome. I know his scene with Dayna Jurgens in The Stand was one of my favorites just because of how...disturbingly affable he was prior to things going south.