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Jan. 5th, 2014 09:22 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ladyofleithianJanuary 5: Do you think Lucas could have handled Padme's character better in the last prequel? If so how?
To be perfectly honest, that's a very good question. I know that when I first got into the Star Wars fandom, I was a little bit confused in regards to the matter of people saying that Padme had been weakened in the third prequel film, if only because I'd read the REVENGE OF THE SITH novelization, where Padme was definitely a fleshed-out character. Definitely not like how they were describing her in that moment. But really, it's a question that leaves a lot to ponder, honestly. There are some that have said that she was pretty strong in that film, such as going to Mustafar to try and save Anakin (which I think takes a lot of guts. Any female character in fiction can kill something, or destroy something *, but it takes real courage to spare and show pity. I mean, look at Rose Tyler, for one thing. ** ). And then there are others who said that she was reduced in terms of just being someone who was defined by Anakin, if I remember it all correctly. (See, this is why having the memory of an elephant is a blessing and a curse at the same time) But that said...
I think if there's one thing that George Lucas could have done in terms of improving Padme's character, it's this: he really should have put her scenes with the Senate back in. I mean, I know there were some people who said that it was the fanbase's fault that he cut the scenes, but really, at least if the commentary for Darths and Droids is any indication, Lucas cut them out to make more room for Anakin and his fall. Honestly, I can understand wanting to focus on Anakin and his fall, but seriously, there really wasn't any need to sacrifice Padme's scenes. Hell, it would be a wonderful way to sort of get into her head and find out what she's thinking. Dealing with the fact that the Republic isn't what she thought it was, and that perhaps Count Dooku, in a way, was right -- a good way to add some shades of gray into the whole proceedings, in my opinion. That and the matter of her dealing with the fact that in a sense, she put Palpatine into power, all to save Naboo. Perhaps have her making little logs of her concerns away from Anakin (it's not that she doesn't trust him, but...well, she doesn't trust him because he's blinded by loyalty to Palpatine) and expressing her worry over what's happening. And in the meantime, having to watch the man she loves slip further away before her eyes, as well as run into bumps in their marriage that might destroy them (not the ordinary ones, but the more significant ones). And all the while, Anakin's trying to find a way to save her. Sort of making a deal with Faust himself to save her. Maybe also elaborate on how the Clone Wars are getting to him as well as Padme. After all, Padme lost two friends of hers in the war in two different ways -- Satine was murdered by Maul for no other reason but to spite Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka had to leave. So Padme herself is also frightened of losing someone else. Perhaps talking with Anakin, confiding in him that she's running to him before he fades from her (basically), and Anakin promising that he won't fade. (Which he does)
I think another purpose the Senate meetings could have is explain how the Rebellion came to be. And a sort of juxtaposition between Anakin and Padme: the man who birthed the Empire (or helped, at least) and the woman who birthed the Rebellion. Maybe add in the matter of Padme working behind the scenes to sabotage the inner workings of what's becoming the Empire the best she can, what with Palpatine becoming all the more determined to take her down just because of the threat she poses. And meanwhile, Anakin's all the more torn between his wife, his sort of father figure, and his duty. And Padme's more than worried about her husband. Fights start occurring more and more, but it doesn't mean they don't love each other still: they love each other, more than anything. It just means they've run into a challenge that might be too big for the both of them. And the both of them are hoping they can overcome it, but still they have their doubts.
On another note, have lighter moments for the both of them, things like wondering what to name their children, Padme talking about the life they could have back on Naboo with their family, almost like a whole fantasy world she's created for the both of them, away from the worst of the Clone Wars. And a sort of reassurance to the both of them that no matter what happens, there's nothing that they can't overcome together.
Then, of course, Order 66 hits. Padme's already in shock from what happened, terrified, and is already worrying about whether or not Anakin (as well as Obi-Wan -- also include scenes of her and Obi-Wan, just to establish how close they are. As friends, that is. And leave out that whole issue of the love triangle that was kinda sorta in the novelization; it really does add nothing) is okay. And in the meanwhile, she's preparing to pack her bags and run off just in case because she knows full well that Palpatine will come for her, and she's not scared for herself, but for her unborn child (or children). She doesn't want to think of what Palpatine would do to her unborn child(ren). Then Anakin returns, fresh off carrying out Order 66 at the Temple (and no doubt shaken from what happened, although Padme doesn't really know the real reason why until Obi-Wan tells her), Padme's relieved, but also confused, and Anakin's answers just confuse her all the further. And even as he heads off to Mustafar, she's still confused, and more than anything, worried for him.
Then, of course, she has to bear witness to the Republic as she knows it crumbling. And Palpatine crowning himself Emperor. And even watching the others applauding, Padme just wonders what the galaxy in general has done -- and what they've done. Still, she can't afford to give up. She never has. Even in the worst parts of the Clone Wars, she's never given up. So she tells Bail Organa and the others to keep doing what they're doing. It's only later in her apartment that she gets a visit from Obi-Wan, and even her relief that he's okay is crushed by his news: Anakin's become a Sith. Of course Padme denies it -- he's had his moments of straying towards the Dark Side, but he'd never betray his own comrades. Unfortunately, seeing the recording footage that Obi-Wan's retrieved from the archives (perhaps an early scene with Obi-Wan taking them to Padme because he feels she deserves to know), it's hard to deny what's right in front of you. Of course Padme and Obi-Wan argue about what to do with Anakin -- Obi-Wan is a soldier at heart, and he wants to take down Anakin however he can, if he has to. Padme of course calls him out, saying that there has to be a better way. They, of course, agree to go together, with Obi-Wan agreeing to wait in the fresher, and strike when things get too bad.
The confrontation on Mustafar, of course, doesn't go well. Padme tries to vainly persuade Anakin to go back with her to Naboo to raise their children, but Anakin is too far-gone at this point, excitedly going on about ruling the galaxy in Palpatine's place and making it all right. Padme listens, and it just occurs to her that whatever happened to Anakin -- this isn't her husband. This is just a monster wearing his face. And all the while Anakin's being very gentle towards her and caring towards her but Padme knows, just looking into his eyes, that it's started. She begs him to come back, that she loves him -- unfortunately, it's ruined when Obi-Wan emerges, misinterpreting what's happening, and it only makes Anakin angrier. He and Obi-Wan duel, and though Padme tries desperately to stop the fight, it's really no use. In the end, she has to intervene, and she and Obi-Wan both stop Anakin, but at the cost of Padme being badly wounded in the duel. Obi-Wan looks down at his former friend, burning in the lava and all but cursing the both of them, and he wants to help Anakin, but there isn't enough time, and the clonetroopers and the Emperor are already closing in. Anakin seems to realize that as well, because he orders Obi-Wan to go -- the last time that Obi-Wan will hear him speak as Anakin Skywalker. On Polis Massa, Padme's already dying, and they're trying to keep her alive as long as possible, but in the end, they have no choice but to do an emergency C-section if only to deliver the children. As she lies dying, Padme names her children, the same names that she and Anakin had once discussed in their happier moments: Luke and Leia. She asks Obi-Wan to protect the children however he can, and to save Anakin ("There is still good in him. I know there is, still..."). Obi-Wan isn't certain about if he can save Anakin/Vader, but he will try and protect the children, and save her husband. He promises Padme that. Padme thanks him, and then dies, smiling all the while. It's later in Theed that they hold the funeral for Padme, Obi-Wan watching in disguise, and Vader watching from a distance, newly suited, grief and guilt-stricken at the loss of his wife. It's later that Obi-Wan manages to narrowly evade Vader, and drops off Leia with Breha and Bail, and Luke with Owen and Beru. He then goes off into the desert to train under Qui-Gon's spirit, and, in time, train the children when they're ready. Cue credits.
That's one interpretation, at least (also, I really didn't know that this could be that massive. Almost a rewrite in general of ROTS; I definitely wasn't expecting that). Maybe Lucas had his reasons for what he did with Padme's character, but yeah, I think he could have done better. It would have been good if he gave her more Character Development, maybe a better end -- because Padme as a character definitely deserved a better end -- and not cut out most of her scenes that weren't with Anakin. That's how I'd do it.
* And maybe I'm overanalyzing a bit, but I don't get some mentalities in our culture that in order to be strong in general, a character has to kill things. I mean, I think it takes more strength to spare lives, not take them.
** I mean, she showed pity to a Dalek and even briefly had it reconsider a life outside killing (I say briefly because the Dalek destroyed itself. It's a sad episode), and she talked the Doctor out of shooting the Dalek even at risk to her own life. Seriously, I dare you to say that Rose Tyler doesn't have some serious guts in that moment. But I digress.
To be perfectly honest, that's a very good question. I know that when I first got into the Star Wars fandom, I was a little bit confused in regards to the matter of people saying that Padme had been weakened in the third prequel film, if only because I'd read the REVENGE OF THE SITH novelization, where Padme was definitely a fleshed-out character. Definitely not like how they were describing her in that moment. But really, it's a question that leaves a lot to ponder, honestly. There are some that have said that she was pretty strong in that film, such as going to Mustafar to try and save Anakin (which I think takes a lot of guts. Any female character in fiction can kill something, or destroy something *, but it takes real courage to spare and show pity. I mean, look at Rose Tyler, for one thing. ** ). And then there are others who said that she was reduced in terms of just being someone who was defined by Anakin, if I remember it all correctly. (See, this is why having the memory of an elephant is a blessing and a curse at the same time) But that said...
I think if there's one thing that George Lucas could have done in terms of improving Padme's character, it's this: he really should have put her scenes with the Senate back in. I mean, I know there were some people who said that it was the fanbase's fault that he cut the scenes, but really, at least if the commentary for Darths and Droids is any indication, Lucas cut them out to make more room for Anakin and his fall. Honestly, I can understand wanting to focus on Anakin and his fall, but seriously, there really wasn't any need to sacrifice Padme's scenes. Hell, it would be a wonderful way to sort of get into her head and find out what she's thinking. Dealing with the fact that the Republic isn't what she thought it was, and that perhaps Count Dooku, in a way, was right -- a good way to add some shades of gray into the whole proceedings, in my opinion. That and the matter of her dealing with the fact that in a sense, she put Palpatine into power, all to save Naboo. Perhaps have her making little logs of her concerns away from Anakin (it's not that she doesn't trust him, but...well, she doesn't trust him because he's blinded by loyalty to Palpatine) and expressing her worry over what's happening. And in the meantime, having to watch the man she loves slip further away before her eyes, as well as run into bumps in their marriage that might destroy them (not the ordinary ones, but the more significant ones). And all the while, Anakin's trying to find a way to save her. Sort of making a deal with Faust himself to save her. Maybe also elaborate on how the Clone Wars are getting to him as well as Padme. After all, Padme lost two friends of hers in the war in two different ways -- Satine was murdered by Maul for no other reason but to spite Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka had to leave. So Padme herself is also frightened of losing someone else. Perhaps talking with Anakin, confiding in him that she's running to him before he fades from her (basically), and Anakin promising that he won't fade. (Which he does)
I think another purpose the Senate meetings could have is explain how the Rebellion came to be. And a sort of juxtaposition between Anakin and Padme: the man who birthed the Empire (or helped, at least) and the woman who birthed the Rebellion. Maybe add in the matter of Padme working behind the scenes to sabotage the inner workings of what's becoming the Empire the best she can, what with Palpatine becoming all the more determined to take her down just because of the threat she poses. And meanwhile, Anakin's all the more torn between his wife, his sort of father figure, and his duty. And Padme's more than worried about her husband. Fights start occurring more and more, but it doesn't mean they don't love each other still: they love each other, more than anything. It just means they've run into a challenge that might be too big for the both of them. And the both of them are hoping they can overcome it, but still they have their doubts.
On another note, have lighter moments for the both of them, things like wondering what to name their children, Padme talking about the life they could have back on Naboo with their family, almost like a whole fantasy world she's created for the both of them, away from the worst of the Clone Wars. And a sort of reassurance to the both of them that no matter what happens, there's nothing that they can't overcome together.
Then, of course, Order 66 hits. Padme's already in shock from what happened, terrified, and is already worrying about whether or not Anakin (as well as Obi-Wan -- also include scenes of her and Obi-Wan, just to establish how close they are. As friends, that is. And leave out that whole issue of the love triangle that was kinda sorta in the novelization; it really does add nothing) is okay. And in the meanwhile, she's preparing to pack her bags and run off just in case because she knows full well that Palpatine will come for her, and she's not scared for herself, but for her unborn child (or children). She doesn't want to think of what Palpatine would do to her unborn child(ren). Then Anakin returns, fresh off carrying out Order 66 at the Temple (and no doubt shaken from what happened, although Padme doesn't really know the real reason why until Obi-Wan tells her), Padme's relieved, but also confused, and Anakin's answers just confuse her all the further. And even as he heads off to Mustafar, she's still confused, and more than anything, worried for him.
Then, of course, she has to bear witness to the Republic as she knows it crumbling. And Palpatine crowning himself Emperor. And even watching the others applauding, Padme just wonders what the galaxy in general has done -- and what they've done. Still, she can't afford to give up. She never has. Even in the worst parts of the Clone Wars, she's never given up. So she tells Bail Organa and the others to keep doing what they're doing. It's only later in her apartment that she gets a visit from Obi-Wan, and even her relief that he's okay is crushed by his news: Anakin's become a Sith. Of course Padme denies it -- he's had his moments of straying towards the Dark Side, but he'd never betray his own comrades. Unfortunately, seeing the recording footage that Obi-Wan's retrieved from the archives (perhaps an early scene with Obi-Wan taking them to Padme because he feels she deserves to know), it's hard to deny what's right in front of you. Of course Padme and Obi-Wan argue about what to do with Anakin -- Obi-Wan is a soldier at heart, and he wants to take down Anakin however he can, if he has to. Padme of course calls him out, saying that there has to be a better way. They, of course, agree to go together, with Obi-Wan agreeing to wait in the fresher, and strike when things get too bad.
The confrontation on Mustafar, of course, doesn't go well. Padme tries to vainly persuade Anakin to go back with her to Naboo to raise their children, but Anakin is too far-gone at this point, excitedly going on about ruling the galaxy in Palpatine's place and making it all right. Padme listens, and it just occurs to her that whatever happened to Anakin -- this isn't her husband. This is just a monster wearing his face. And all the while Anakin's being very gentle towards her and caring towards her but Padme knows, just looking into his eyes, that it's started. She begs him to come back, that she loves him -- unfortunately, it's ruined when Obi-Wan emerges, misinterpreting what's happening, and it only makes Anakin angrier. He and Obi-Wan duel, and though Padme tries desperately to stop the fight, it's really no use. In the end, she has to intervene, and she and Obi-Wan both stop Anakin, but at the cost of Padme being badly wounded in the duel. Obi-Wan looks down at his former friend, burning in the lava and all but cursing the both of them, and he wants to help Anakin, but there isn't enough time, and the clonetroopers and the Emperor are already closing in. Anakin seems to realize that as well, because he orders Obi-Wan to go -- the last time that Obi-Wan will hear him speak as Anakin Skywalker. On Polis Massa, Padme's already dying, and they're trying to keep her alive as long as possible, but in the end, they have no choice but to do an emergency C-section if only to deliver the children. As she lies dying, Padme names her children, the same names that she and Anakin had once discussed in their happier moments: Luke and Leia. She asks Obi-Wan to protect the children however he can, and to save Anakin ("There is still good in him. I know there is, still..."). Obi-Wan isn't certain about if he can save Anakin/Vader, but he will try and protect the children, and save her husband. He promises Padme that. Padme thanks him, and then dies, smiling all the while. It's later in Theed that they hold the funeral for Padme, Obi-Wan watching in disguise, and Vader watching from a distance, newly suited, grief and guilt-stricken at the loss of his wife. It's later that Obi-Wan manages to narrowly evade Vader, and drops off Leia with Breha and Bail, and Luke with Owen and Beru. He then goes off into the desert to train under Qui-Gon's spirit, and, in time, train the children when they're ready. Cue credits.
That's one interpretation, at least (also, I really didn't know that this could be that massive. Almost a rewrite in general of ROTS; I definitely wasn't expecting that). Maybe Lucas had his reasons for what he did with Padme's character, but yeah, I think he could have done better. It would have been good if he gave her more Character Development, maybe a better end -- because Padme as a character definitely deserved a better end -- and not cut out most of her scenes that weren't with Anakin. That's how I'd do it.
* And maybe I'm overanalyzing a bit, but I don't get some mentalities in our culture that in order to be strong in general, a character has to kill things. I mean, I think it takes more strength to spare lives, not take them.
** I mean, she showed pity to a Dalek and even briefly had it reconsider a life outside killing (I say briefly because the Dalek destroyed itself. It's a sad episode), and she talked the Doctor out of shooting the Dalek even at risk to her own life. Seriously, I dare you to say that Rose Tyler doesn't have some serious guts in that moment. But I digress.
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Date: 2014-01-05 05:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-05 05:31 pm (UTC)And yeah, definitely well-said. I definitely get what Lucas was going for, but I really think he could have made the film about Anakin without shafting Padme. Besides, I think it would be pretty cool to see her in the Senate again. (Plus, major opportunity for more character development!)
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Date: 2014-01-05 08:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-05 10:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-05 10:56 pm (UTC)I agree. At the very least, it would’ve shown that she was doing *something* other than sitting home. The queen of Naboo can’t find out that Padme and Anakin are married or that Padme is expecting a child because otherwise Padme will get fired, but apparently Padme can take all this time off from work and nobody cares or asks why?
/And a sort of juxtaposition between Anakin and Padme: the man who birthed the Empire (or helped, at least) and the woman who birthed the Rebellion. Maybe add in the matter of Padme working behind the scenes to sabotage the inner workings of what's becoming the Empire the best she can, what with Palpatine becoming all the more determined to take her down just because of the threat she poses./
Yes, that would have been awesome. ^^
/have lighter moments for the both of them, things like wondering what to name their children, Padme talking about the life they could have back on Naboo with their family/
YES! Show some indication of how Luke and Leia got their names, show *some* involvement on Anakin’s part when it came to his children.
/And leave out that whole issue of the love triangle that was kinda sorta in the novelization; it really does add nothing/
Exactly, it was *not* needed. All it did was give fuel to the Obidala shippers.
/Of course Padme denies it -- he's had his moments of straying towards the Dark Side/
I hope that this version doesn’t include Anakin’s slaughter of the Sandpeople.
/Padme tries desperately to stop the fight, it's really no use. In the end, she has to intervene/
I like this addition because it gives her a more active role. Her unconsciousness after Anakin’s Force-choke just seemed like a way to conveniently get her off-screen and away from the action so that Obi-Wan and Anakin could have their fight. (This awkward contrivance is further heightened by the fact that after Obi-Wan checks her pulse, that’s the last that he or Anakin ever notice her before they start fighting. It’s as if Padme isn’t even there anymore. Guys, you don’t think that it would be a good idea to move the unconscious pregnant woman away from the lava and sulphuric atmosphere? You’re just going to leave her there?)
/Vader watching from a distance, newly suited, grief and guilt-stricken at the loss of his wife./
Oh, yes, this would have been lovely and so sad. And probably would have caused far less audience snickering and face-palms than the infamous “NOOOOO!”
Warning: Major TL;DR here. (Part One)
Date: 2014-01-06 12:55 am (UTC)And thanks! I think it definitely would provide a sort of a nice juxtaposition. The woman who did good and the man who, through his own good intentions, did evil.
And yes, exactly! That and I think it would have provided a nice, lovely moment for Anakin and Padme both considering how most of the film is centered on Anakin's fall. I mean, you kind of have to provide some light moments in between the darkness, or the audience kind of becomes overwhelmed. But yes, I think it would have been lovely to see Anakin's involvement with his future children (I mean, he went through just about everything in the original trilogy just to find Luke. A little reference in the PT would have been nice, really), Padme's wish for a better future, etc. It definitely would have made everything all the more poignant.
Yes, very much so! And it was also a sort of cheap way to characterize Anakin as evil; seriously, it's already well-established that the man was willing to sacrifice everything just for a way to save Padme that, in the end, didn't exist anyway if Qui-Gon's word in the novelization is to be believed (which means Anakin killed all these people for absolutely nothing. Not like that's news, anyway. I think that's definitely one of the most tragic things about the whole situation; everything Anakin did was for nothing, in the end). I don't think they needed to add "Obi-Wan-might-steal-her-from-him" in there as well (and I don't think Obi-Wan had a romantic interest in Padme. I think he just cared for her as a friend). And I think the whole point was, really, Anakin wasn't an evil person. He was a fundamentally good person who did bad things with good intentions. I mean, what would be so wrong with that? Honestly, I think that if we could have more of that complexity -- a character who's not really evil; he or she's just done terrible things out of good intentions, not done for Draco in Leather Pants reasons, but to just shake things up a little -- we could definitely tell some interesting stories.
(Sorry, that was a rant that was pent up for a while. TL;DR, yes, totally agreed)
Warning: Major TL;DR here. (Part Two)
Date: 2014-01-06 12:55 am (UTC)And holy crap, that's a good call. D: Seriously, they couldn't have at least thought about that? Seriously? I mean, even in the scene, they seemed more interested in the whole duel thing than anything else. At least in the novelization, Obi-Wan had the common decency to beg Anakin to let him take Padme to the hospital, and Anakin was just too blinded by rage to listen. It's not a perfect explanation, but at least it would be an explanation. And it would show a bit of empathy from Obi-Wan that seemed to have been thrown out the window in the scene because I think he was more interested in preaching and yelling at Anakin than anything else. That and I think it would sort of make sense for Anakin in a twisted way because...people don't act rationally when they're blinded by anger and pride. Or either individually. And I think in a way (and it may or may not sound strange), it would show even further that the effects of the Dark Side have started. (I'm sort of thinking Thorin in Desolation of Smaug here)
But yeah, it really does give her a more active role (getting back on topic). I mean, I think it would definitely be a better end for Padme -- going out being a hero, not just by fighting, but by trying to stop a fight.
And thanks! And yeah, it would -- I definitely get what Lucas was going for with the "Noooo!", but it was kind of poorly executed, really. It didn't help that it just...sounded really off.
So again, thanks! I'm really glad you liked it.
Re: Warning: Major TL;DR here. (Part Two)
Date: 2014-01-06 01:35 am (UTC)That’s a relief. ^_^
/It's something that should be treated with a lot of gravity/
Yes, which is why I think that it was a big mistake to put it in the second movie. If it had to happen, it would be more fitting to place that scene in the third movie, after the point where Anakin is already far gone and has crossed over to the Dark Side.
/I mean, even in the scene, they seemed more interested in the whole duel thing than anything else./
I feel that at that moment, Padme became a prop. It was as if they said, “Okay, Padme and Anakin’s argument has ended, that’s now out of the way, and now Obi-Wan’s here. Right now we need Anakin and Obi-Wan to fight. But Padme can’t be involved because the fight is supposed to be a duel to the death between Anakin and Obi-Wan only. But she’s still here. Where are we supposed to put her? How do we get her out of this scene? Hmm… Oh, I know, let’s just have Anakin Force-choke her and make her unconscious. That way, she can’t interfere and she’s out of the way.” And then they just forgot that the whole time that Anakin and Obi-Wan were fighting, Padme was lying on the ground of a volcanic planet while her husband and friend had apparently forgotten all about her.
It would be hilarious if, in a parody, Padme woke up in the middle of the fight and interrupted Anakin and Obi-Wan by yelling at them for leaving her there.
/I think it would definitely be a better end for Padme -- going out being a hero/
I definitely agree. :)
/I definitely get what Lucas was going for with the "Noooo!", but it was kind of poorly executed, really. It didn't help that it just...sounded really off./
It was fine until that point. I don’t understand why certain fans had a problem with Vader saying his wife’s name. Do they think that it’s a dumb name and that’s why they thought it sounded dumb coming out of Vader’s mouth? I mean, I guess if he said “my wife” instead, it wouldn’t have sounded as jarring for them. But I hope that it’s just an issue of Padme’s name and not the fact that he mentioned her at all.
/So again, thanks! I'm really glad you liked it./
Oh, you're welcome! Yes, I really enjoyed this post. :)
Re: Warning: Major TL;DR here. (Part Two)
Date: 2014-01-06 02:41 am (UTC)And yes, exactly. I think at the very least, it wouldn't have been as "wait, what?" for some people when Padme denied that Anakin would ever turn to the Dark Side, as well as being distraught that he killed younglings (seriously, Padme, you've kind of got a disturbing Double Standard here). At the very least, her reaction would have made sense. (And I guess at the time she just really felt more sorry for Anakin than anything else, but I don't think "To be angry is to be human" is the right response. I mean, there's a major difference between just being angry and killing almost everyone in the Sand People tribe including those who probably had nothing to do with it, e.g. the women and the kids. And even if some of them were doing the torturing, is it really right to assume that all of the tribe was guilty and deserved to die?)
And yeah, that would be hilarious. XD *Sighs* And yeah, I think you're right there. Padme being Force choked really was a plot convenience. I think that's one of many reasons why you can't really overemphasize plot; I mean, plot is important, yes, but if characters are just making decisions that no human being would do just to advance the plot, then it's guaranteed that the audience is going to notice. It doesn't mean that your characters have to know everything at an exact time, but it really is important to at least have them acting like human beings would act in real life. And not sideline your characters for the sake of the plot either.
You know what really pissed me off about that scene? Other than checking for a pulse, Obi-Wan didn't care about anything else except pontificating to Anakin about "you're evil, I'm good, yadda yadda yadda" -- he didn't even seem concerned that Padme was just lying there or about redeeming Anakin. At least with Anakin one can guess that at one point, he'd just gone off the deep end. But Obi-Wan...I have no idea what was going on in Obi-Wan's head during that scene.
I didn't really mind Vader saying "Padme", really. To be honest, I thought it was a really poignant moment. And I think him saying "my wife" (and keep in mind I could be very much wrong) would be too detached and too sort of impersonal, and Anakin/Vader...for all his many faults, I think he's anything but that. I think it was just the "Nooooo!" itself that sounded really strange coming out of Vader. I think a good alternative would be him attempting to kill Sidious in revenge, only to fail because...well, he's not as powerful as he once was. (Damn that midichlorian rule, just goddammit.) Or maybe a sort of howl, or even sort of like he's struggling to say something, anything, but he can't. (I know that from what I read, apparently his vocal chords got damaged on Mustafar, which... what kind of lava is strong enough to even do that? I think it goes without saying that lava's rather dangerous, but holy *shit*...)
And glad you enjoyed it! I know I enjoyed writing it. :)
Re: Warning: Major TL;DR here. (Part Two)
Date: 2014-01-06 09:11 pm (UTC)The films themselves had a double standard. Anakin kills children in the second film, but it’s only until the third film that we’re supposed to be horrified. So, killing Tusken children doesn’t show that you’ve crossed over to the Dark Side, but killing Jedi children does? The slaughter of the Tusken children is supposed to be only a stepping stone to the Dark Side, but the slaughter of Jedi children is supposed to be definite proof that Anakin is gone?
/I guess at the time she just really felt more sorry for Anakin than anything else, but I don't think "To be angry is to be human" is the right response./
Even if she did feel sorry for him, she would still freak out. (In fact, I honestly don’t see how her reaction is much different than Bella Swan’s reaction to Edward Cullen when he told her that he had killed people in the past.) Maybe she’d try not to show how horrified she was, maybe she would’ve tried to calm him down first so that she could safely get out of there, but to hear all of this and then just forget about it? To not tell anyone? What happened to the queen who ordered the heads of the Trade Federation to be arrested, not executed? What happened to the queen who believed in the rule of law and didn’t stoop to killing her enemies, not even when they threatened her safety and the safety of her planet? Now, all of a sudden, vigilante vengeance is okay with her?
/I mean, there's a major difference between just being angry and killing almost everyone in the Sand People tribe including those who probably had nothing to do with it, e.g. the women and the kids./
Exactly. Besides, Padme could’ve easily said the same thing about the Jedi children. After all, Anakin was “angry” there, too. He was angry that he had to hide his marriage to Padme because of the Jedi’s rules, he was angry that they didn’t make him a master, he was angry about possibly losing his wife, he was angry about his mother dying. So, how come anger doesn’t justify what he did then?
/You know what really pissed me off about that scene? Other than checking for a pulse, Obi-Wan didn't care about anything else except pontificating to Anakin about "you're evil, I'm good, yadda yadda yadda" -- he didn't even seem concerned that Padme was just lying there or about redeeming Anakin./
And that’s interesting too (and another contradiction) because in “Return of the Jedi,” Vader tells Luke that “Obi-Wan once thought as you do,” when Luke begs him to come with him. Yet in “Revenge of the Sith,” we clearly see that it’s *Padme* who begged him to turn back from the Dark Side, whereas Obi-Wan, like you said, seemed more interested in lecturing Anakin.
/At least with Anakin one can guess that at one point, he'd just gone off the deep end. But Obi-Wan...I have no idea what was going on in Obi-Wan's head during that scene./
Or during the scene where he stupidly and heartlessly left Anakin to slowly burn to death.
/I didn't really mind Vader saying "Padme", really. To be honest, I thought it was a really poignant moment./
Yeah, I didn’t mind it either. Since Vader never mentions his wife in the Original Trilogy, I thought that it was nice that we finally got to hear him say her name.
/I think a good alternative would be him attempting to kill Sidious in revenge, only to fail because...well, he's not as powerful as he once was./
Yes, especially since the whole reason why he joined up with Sidious in the first place was because Sidious promised that he could save her. Well, now she’s dead, thus Sidious didn’t fulfill his end of the bargain.
/or even sort of like he's struggling to say something, anything, but he can't./
Oh, that would be really sad. Especially if Padme lived long enough to see him in the suit and he could only talk to her and/or the baby with that menacing voice (which would lend another dimension to his request to Luke in RotJ to take off his mask, since not only would he get to see Luke with his own eyes, he’d get to talk to him – barely – in his own voice).
Re: Warning: Major TL;DR here. (Part Two)
Date: 2014-01-06 09:42 pm (UTC)And yes, exactly! I mean, like I said, Double Standard.
And very good point. It really doesn't match up with what Vader said in ROTJ.
And God yes. First time I read and saw it, it really became Obi-Wan's Moral Event Horizon when it really wasn't intended to be. Now, just...ye gods. What was he thinking?
Exactly.
And yeah, exactly. Considering Sidious lied to him about saving Padme, I think Vader trying to kill him would be very much justified. And make his ultimately killing the Emperor at the end of ROTJ all the more awesome.
And God yes. That really would be very sad. And it would add a nice sort of mirror with his final scene with Luke, it really would.
Re: Warning: Major TL;DR here. (Part One)
Date: 2014-01-06 01:21 am (UTC)That’s very true. I guess that the dialogue in the balcony scene is supposed to be a light moment right before Anakin has his nightmare, but the nightmare arrives too quickly in that point in time and Padme and Anakin don’t do anything in that scene but talk about how much they love each other. I just wish that instead of all the scenes where Anakin’s sulking and brooding over what to do, there would be bittersweet moments where he’s talking with Padme about the baby or expressing his own hopes and fears about being a good father and teaching his child the ways of the Force (which could nicely lead into Vader telling Luke that he needs to complete his training with him, etc).
/I mean, he went through just about everything in the original trilogy just to find Luke. A little reference in the PT would have been nice, really/
It would, it really would. You could have seen where Vader’s growing bond with Luke came from and it would have been even more tragic with the dramatic irony of knowing what would happen between Anakin and his children.
/I don't think Obi-Wan had a romantic interest in Padme. I think he just cared for her as a friend/
I agree. I don't know if they just needed a reason for Anakin to go ballistic when Obi-Wan showed up in Mustafar, but, again, it wasn't necessary.
Re: Warning: Major TL;DR here. (Part One)
Date: 2014-01-06 02:17 am (UTC)(And yeah, I guess it kind of adds to "why the hell would he go to Master Yoda earlier", but even so...)
And yes, exactly!
And yeah, I'm guessing they did. (It was sort of hinted at in the film, at least) Like the whole idea of his best friend turning on him as well as his wife wasn't bad enough.
Re: Warning: Major TL;DR here. (Part One)
Date: 2014-01-06 09:25 pm (UTC)Actually, I think that that could have been another reason for why Anakin felt animosity – if not hatred – towards the Jedi. If the Jedi found out about his marriage to Padme and subsequently expelled him from the Jedi Order, I’d imagine that he’d grow very bitter (“this is a war, look at all I’ve done for them, doesn’t anything that I’ve done count more than the fact that I broke one rule just to marry the woman I love?” etc.). But if the Jedi also found out that Padme was pregnant and suspected that the child would be Force-sensitive and thus in dire need of Jedi training, I’d imagine that Anakin would completely flip out. And again, it would lend a sense of irony for what would happen because Anakin would try to keep the Jedi from taking his child away from him and the child(ren) would be torn away from him regardless and raised to fight against him. But, at the very end, Anakin would be vindicated by his son refusing to kill him (thus refusing to obey his Jedi masters and turning against them, in a way) because of the love he had for his father.
Re: Warning: Major TL;DR here. (Part One)
Date: 2014-01-06 10:00 pm (UTC)