I saw The Rise of Skywalker in theaters, and even though there were some good ideas in there, there were also some ideas that just seemed to be on. Crack.
Things I loved:
-The opening scene with Kylo and Palpatine was creepy as hell, and actually did provide a revelation that didn’t make me go “Are you on crack, JJ?” The revelation that Palpatine basically imitated Snoke, Vader, etc. makes sense, and it makes sense that Palpatine would do with Kylo what he did with Anakin. Even if it does make Snoke a tad pointless. (Seriously, if they wanted to go with Palpatine, why not go with Palpatine?)
-Jannah. What a badass woman. I love her so, so much. I really hope that Naomi Ackie doesn’t get the same backlash Kelly Marie Tran did, especially given that Jannah was both a complete sweetheart and a badass. I was afraid it would be Rose Tico all over again, and I am so happy that they didn’t go that route.
-Lando! He got to kick a lot of ass in this movie. I think the movie really did do justice to him. (Also, yay, the movie didn’t kill him off!)
-Luke’s appearance. Given how much I hated him in TLJ (to the point that when he died zero fucks were given), JJ actually did rescue him from the scrappy heap, and I’m grateful for that. Luke’s appearance, including him mentioning that “yeah, I didn’t act Jedi-like when I came to Ach-To”, really did feel like an apology for what a loser he was in TLJ.
-The droid Dio (I probably fucked up his name, sorry) was absolutely adorable.
-Rey! Seriously, JJ did a good job of using the Dark Rey thing as a characterization device to show that she was having doubts. I thought Dark Rey was going to be used as a way to shit on Rey (because of, IMHO, how thoroughly TLJ did it), but JJ did do a good job in using it in a way that added depth to Rey’s character. Even though I thought that Rey being a Palpatine was an Ass Pull.
-Rey’s parents. Cool characters, wish their origin had been better.
-Kylo’s redemption actually didn’t feel like an Ass Pull. And Han’s cameo actually did work and was emotional. (Hey, TFA Han is a legend and will not be shat upon)
-Poe admitting to a dead Leia that he’s scared actually did make me feel bad for him and wasn’t (completely) fist-fucked by the fact Poe was being an asshole that Denis Leary would give the thumbs-up to. Really, that was actually a good scene.
-I don’t hate Leia anymore. JJ really did give her a good send-off, in terms of her showing her son that she still loved and believed in him. So...Leia, I forgive you. (JJ also redeemed that Leia Poppins scene by showing Leia had trained beforehand, even if the mechanics of breathing in space are ridiculous. I mean, Leia’s not Batman, Rian Johnson)
-The galaxy coming to the Resistance’s aid was genuinely awesome.
Things that I didn’t:
-JJ really did do something amazing, and by amazing, I mean how-the-fuck-did-this-happen. He made me hate Poe Dameron. Yes, the same Poe Dameron that I fell in love with when he sassed Kylo Ren (by the way, zero Poe and Kylo interactions, even though it would have made sense for them to interact given that Poe is the leader of the Resistance. Alas, they couldn’t give a fuck) and showed Finn the first kindness that he had been shown as a stormtrooper. Even in TLJ, Poe had genuinely good intentions — he didn’t rebel against Holdo because he was a misogynist. He rebelled against her because she wasn’t communicating with him (Y’know, like a Vice Admiral should?) and because he was scared for people dying. Here? He’s just a Jerkass for no reason, arguing with Rey, treating Finn (IMHO) like shit, being mean to Threepio in ways that even Han didn’t cross the line with...yeah, Threepio was kind of the Butt Monkey in the OT, but Poe treating him that way makes no sense because one of Poe’s defining traits is his kindness and treating people like equals. This is the same man who said to one of his squadmates, “I’m the best, but you’re the best too.” I’m not saying that Poe should have to be a saint all the time because I’m sure even All Loving Heroes have their run-out-of-fucks-to-give days and it’s unfair to POC to be expected to be nice all the time no doubt, but this wasn’t something that was acknowledged. This was just Poe being a prickly douchebag, and it got to the point that when there were tense moments like him, Finn and Chewie about to be executed by firing squad or the battle of Discount-Moraband (yes, I forgot the name. I might as well call it Discount-Moraband because I have no clue why they couldn’t have just incorporated Moraband), I just gave not one fuck. Even Oscar Isaac’s charisma couldn’t save this one.
-Rey’s parentage was an Ass Pull. Seriously, I might have used Rey Palpatine in one of my fics, but I was mostly just flinging shit at the wall and seeing what stuck, and I regretted using it. The very idea of Palpatine boinking really feels like something out of the Jedi Prince books (yes, Palpatine has a son there. I can only assume Rey’s dad is Trioculus — yeah, I know I fucked up his name — if he were a good guy). Of all the things to rip off, JJ, ripping off The Glove of Darth Vader is an awful, awful idea. I can’t believe I’m assuming that JJ actually ripped off that weird relic. (Also, check out masterghandalf’s recaps on das_sporking; they’re hilarious)
Honestly, I can understand why JJ made the choice he made because he really was dealing with two very loud sides. On the one hand, you have the Rey Skywalker or Rey Solo people, who were pretty pissed that Rey didn’t turn out to be that. (I remember one female YouTuber claiming that Rian Johnson was pandering to “fat, lonely cat-ladies” and suggesting some really elitist things like Rey-can’t-be-competent-without-a-strong-bloodline) On the other hand, you have the Reylos, who...go without saying. But I honestly think that Rey and Kylo should have been related (even if it does make the Shirtless Scene squicky. Hey, Luke and Leia played tonsil hockey in ESB, so...). It would have killed several birds with one stone. It would have served the same purpose as her being a Palpatine, knowing she had a great potential for good and evil in her and knowing she was either the cousin or the sister of a dictator and hell, it could have been a great set-up for conflict, a sort of realization that “hey, this could be me”. It would have explained why Anakin’s lightsaber called out to her in Maz’s palace. And it would have added more depth between Rey and Kylo and explained Kylo’s weird kinship with Rey.
The idea of a heroic Palpatine is interesting for sure. But it’s also nonsensical, and I think Rey being a Skywalker or a Solo would have had the same effect. (Yeah, she takes the name Skywalker at the end, but I think her being a biological Skywalker heir wouldn’t have seemed like such a goddamn Ass Pull)
-And speaking of Ass Pulls, what the fuck was that backstory with Poe and Zorii Bliss? I mean...I was spoiled-ish for Rey Palpatine, but I was caught off-guard by the revelation that Poe used to be a spice dealer, and not in the “wow, that’s a cool twist” way. It’s made even worse because we have the backstory of Poe having been in the New Republic Navy before effectively going Screw This I’m Outta Here. Zorii...I think she had the potential to be a great character, and Keri Russell did a great job, but it’s kind of ruined by the fact that Poe’s history with her was completely pulled out of JJ’s ass. Just...honestly, even though I doubt Oscar or JJ knew anything about the Poe-and-Kylo-knew-each-other thing, it would have at least been interesting if that was a reveal, because (and yeah, maybe I’m still holding on to this ship and I need to let go and come over to the het side and yadda yadda) it would have actually addressed Poe’s torture in Episode Seven (though given that Rey’s torture is never mentioned again, you could say both interrogations were gigantic Big Lipped Alligator Moments) outside of (a) Poe Dameron’s Flight Log — you know it’s bad when a fucking children’s book treats Poe’s trauma with more respect than the actual film /- and (b) Poe going “lol, me and Rey are torture buddies” in one of the Poe Dameron comics). It would have filled in a lot of blanks (like how Poe recognized Kylo on Crait, why Ben’s name was in the code to bring his X-wing to him — seriously, are there just a lot of “Bens” in the galaxy, Charles Soule? Does Poe have a cousin named Ben we don’t know about? — that whole thing in the TLJ novelization about Leia knowing Poe since he was a kid...even if you don’t ship Darkpilot, fine, but are we just going to pretend they never existed?). It would have added pathos. It would have been something we hadn’t seen in Star Wars before and yet the perfect twist for a melodramatic space opera. They didn’t have to go for lovers; any relationship between Poe and Kylo would have been fine.
So yeah, my dislike of Zorii isn’t a Die For Our Ship thing; I’m not childish enough to go that route. (Hell, maybe I’ll do a Zorii/Poe/Ben threesome in the future) I dislike the idea of her because she makes no goddamn sense, and any attempt at emotion with her and Poe was fist-fucked by the whole “what the fuck was that retcon?!” And it’s not like JJ gave me anything good to replace it with. That’s my problem with my Headcanons being Jossed; JJ’s not giving me anything that makes sense to replace it with. People who say “lol you’re just upset that your headcanons got sunk” are people who say that you’re spoiled for asking for better quality canon.
*Sighs* So yeah, Zorii, I don’t really hate your character; I thought you had a cool personality and a cool design, but your concept really got fist-fucked by the utter Ass Pull that was your history with Poe. If it’s all the same to you, I’ll be...I dunno, shipping Zorii with Lando or something.
-And speaking more of Ass Pulls, Hux being a Resistance spy? Are you shitting me? I mean, yeah, obvious fact that Hux hates Kylo is obvious, but motherfucker, if Hux hated Kylo so much, he would have tried staging his own coup, not deciding “y’know what, maybe I should sell intel to the Resistance”. I mean, Hux hates the Resistance. He made it abundantly clear in his Starkiller Base speech (and JJ worked on the script for TFA, so what’s his excuse?) that he hates them. Y’know, the “loathsome Resistance” and shit? Wouldn’t the not-obviously-high-on-crack option be to have Hux try and stage his own coup? Oh my God, the fanfics really are writing themselves, aren’t they?
(Though I guess fanfic’s no use. The movie’s already been released; unless we do Endgame-style time travel, we can’t undo what’s been done. Just...tell me fanfic still means something)
-Some stuff on screen was an obvious rip-off of the OT, like Palpatine forcing Rey to watch the fleet being destroyed, as well as Rey and Kylo’s conversation about her parentage.
-Rey and Kylo kissed. To quote Charlie Brown, auuuuuuuuuugh! It’s not just Darkpilot that I’m mourning, but FinnRey. (Seriously, what did FinnRey do to literally anyone?) It’s a bit weird because Kylo/Ben dies afterwards, but still, auuuuuuuuugh. (Yeah, that sound you heard? That was the sound of two ships sinking)
-Finn didn’t even get to have a rematch with Kylo. Just...auuuuuuuuugh! (It’s bizarre that the film seems allergic to anything interesting, and when they do decide to be interesting, it’s the what-crack-are-you-using-so-I-can-avoid-it interesting)
So it’s a weird case. Honestly, the Sequel Trilogy started out with really strong promise in Episode Seven. We had great characters, strong emotional moments...true, maybe the plot wasn’t the most original in the world, but it didn’t matter. We had great mysteries too — what happened to Kylo? What happened to Rey? Who is Snoke? Et cetera. And then the middle and end just fell apart. There were great ideas in TROS, but there were also a lot of bad ones that no one sat JJ down for and said, “Boss, lay off the crack.”
I’m actually proposing something that may get me ridiculed, but I don’t care: I’m rewriting the Sequel Trilogy. Even if nobody wants to read it, even if people think I’m a fool for trying. The Sequel Trilogy could have been truly the trilogy — after the disaster that was the old post-ROTJ EU, and the TOR MMO deciding to shit on Revan and the Exile — that saved Star Wars. Even if nobody cares what I have to write or say (which may be the case on AO3; writing a rare pairing does that to you), at least I’ll be trying. I hope.
Things I loved:
-The opening scene with Kylo and Palpatine was creepy as hell, and actually did provide a revelation that didn’t make me go “Are you on crack, JJ?” The revelation that Palpatine basically imitated Snoke, Vader, etc. makes sense, and it makes sense that Palpatine would do with Kylo what he did with Anakin. Even if it does make Snoke a tad pointless. (Seriously, if they wanted to go with Palpatine, why not go with Palpatine?)
-Jannah. What a badass woman. I love her so, so much. I really hope that Naomi Ackie doesn’t get the same backlash Kelly Marie Tran did, especially given that Jannah was both a complete sweetheart and a badass. I was afraid it would be Rose Tico all over again, and I am so happy that they didn’t go that route.
-Lando! He got to kick a lot of ass in this movie. I think the movie really did do justice to him. (Also, yay, the movie didn’t kill him off!)
-Luke’s appearance. Given how much I hated him in TLJ (to the point that when he died zero fucks were given), JJ actually did rescue him from the scrappy heap, and I’m grateful for that. Luke’s appearance, including him mentioning that “yeah, I didn’t act Jedi-like when I came to Ach-To”, really did feel like an apology for what a loser he was in TLJ.
-The droid Dio (I probably fucked up his name, sorry) was absolutely adorable.
-Rey! Seriously, JJ did a good job of using the Dark Rey thing as a characterization device to show that she was having doubts. I thought Dark Rey was going to be used as a way to shit on Rey (because of, IMHO, how thoroughly TLJ did it), but JJ did do a good job in using it in a way that added depth to Rey’s character. Even though I thought that Rey being a Palpatine was an Ass Pull.
-Rey’s parents. Cool characters, wish their origin had been better.
-Kylo’s redemption actually didn’t feel like an Ass Pull. And Han’s cameo actually did work and was emotional. (Hey, TFA Han is a legend and will not be shat upon)
-Poe admitting to a dead Leia that he’s scared actually did make me feel bad for him and wasn’t (completely) fist-fucked by the fact Poe was being an asshole that Denis Leary would give the thumbs-up to. Really, that was actually a good scene.
-I don’t hate Leia anymore. JJ really did give her a good send-off, in terms of her showing her son that she still loved and believed in him. So...Leia, I forgive you. (JJ also redeemed that Leia Poppins scene by showing Leia had trained beforehand, even if the mechanics of breathing in space are ridiculous. I mean, Leia’s not Batman, Rian Johnson)
-The galaxy coming to the Resistance’s aid was genuinely awesome.
Things that I didn’t:
-JJ really did do something amazing, and by amazing, I mean how-the-fuck-did-this-happen. He made me hate Poe Dameron. Yes, the same Poe Dameron that I fell in love with when he sassed Kylo Ren (by the way, zero Poe and Kylo interactions, even though it would have made sense for them to interact given that Poe is the leader of the Resistance. Alas, they couldn’t give a fuck) and showed Finn the first kindness that he had been shown as a stormtrooper. Even in TLJ, Poe had genuinely good intentions — he didn’t rebel against Holdo because he was a misogynist. He rebelled against her because she wasn’t communicating with him (Y’know, like a Vice Admiral should?) and because he was scared for people dying. Here? He’s just a Jerkass for no reason, arguing with Rey, treating Finn (IMHO) like shit, being mean to Threepio in ways that even Han didn’t cross the line with...yeah, Threepio was kind of the Butt Monkey in the OT, but Poe treating him that way makes no sense because one of Poe’s defining traits is his kindness and treating people like equals. This is the same man who said to one of his squadmates, “I’m the best, but you’re the best too.” I’m not saying that Poe should have to be a saint all the time because I’m sure even All Loving Heroes have their run-out-of-fucks-to-give days and it’s unfair to POC to be expected to be nice all the time no doubt, but this wasn’t something that was acknowledged. This was just Poe being a prickly douchebag, and it got to the point that when there were tense moments like him, Finn and Chewie about to be executed by firing squad or the battle of Discount-Moraband (yes, I forgot the name. I might as well call it Discount-Moraband because I have no clue why they couldn’t have just incorporated Moraband), I just gave not one fuck. Even Oscar Isaac’s charisma couldn’t save this one.
-Rey’s parentage was an Ass Pull. Seriously, I might have used Rey Palpatine in one of my fics, but I was mostly just flinging shit at the wall and seeing what stuck, and I regretted using it. The very idea of Palpatine boinking really feels like something out of the Jedi Prince books (yes, Palpatine has a son there. I can only assume Rey’s dad is Trioculus — yeah, I know I fucked up his name — if he were a good guy). Of all the things to rip off, JJ, ripping off The Glove of Darth Vader is an awful, awful idea. I can’t believe I’m assuming that JJ actually ripped off that weird relic. (Also, check out masterghandalf’s recaps on das_sporking; they’re hilarious)
Honestly, I can understand why JJ made the choice he made because he really was dealing with two very loud sides. On the one hand, you have the Rey Skywalker or Rey Solo people, who were pretty pissed that Rey didn’t turn out to be that. (I remember one female YouTuber claiming that Rian Johnson was pandering to “fat, lonely cat-ladies” and suggesting some really elitist things like Rey-can’t-be-competent-without-a-strong-bloodline) On the other hand, you have the Reylos, who...go without saying. But I honestly think that Rey and Kylo should have been related (even if it does make the Shirtless Scene squicky. Hey, Luke and Leia played tonsil hockey in ESB, so...). It would have killed several birds with one stone. It would have served the same purpose as her being a Palpatine, knowing she had a great potential for good and evil in her and knowing she was either the cousin or the sister of a dictator and hell, it could have been a great set-up for conflict, a sort of realization that “hey, this could be me”. It would have explained why Anakin’s lightsaber called out to her in Maz’s palace. And it would have added more depth between Rey and Kylo and explained Kylo’s weird kinship with Rey.
The idea of a heroic Palpatine is interesting for sure. But it’s also nonsensical, and I think Rey being a Skywalker or a Solo would have had the same effect. (Yeah, she takes the name Skywalker at the end, but I think her being a biological Skywalker heir wouldn’t have seemed like such a goddamn Ass Pull)
-And speaking of Ass Pulls, what the fuck was that backstory with Poe and Zorii Bliss? I mean...I was spoiled-ish for Rey Palpatine, but I was caught off-guard by the revelation that Poe used to be a spice dealer, and not in the “wow, that’s a cool twist” way. It’s made even worse because we have the backstory of Poe having been in the New Republic Navy before effectively going Screw This I’m Outta Here. Zorii...I think she had the potential to be a great character, and Keri Russell did a great job, but it’s kind of ruined by the fact that Poe’s history with her was completely pulled out of JJ’s ass. Just...honestly, even though I doubt Oscar or JJ knew anything about the Poe-and-Kylo-knew-each-other thing, it would have at least been interesting if that was a reveal, because (and yeah, maybe I’m still holding on to this ship and I need to let go and come over to the het side and yadda yadda) it would have actually addressed Poe’s torture in Episode Seven (though given that Rey’s torture is never mentioned again, you could say both interrogations were gigantic Big Lipped Alligator Moments) outside of (a) Poe Dameron’s Flight Log — you know it’s bad when a fucking children’s book treats Poe’s trauma with more respect than the actual film /- and (b) Poe going “lol, me and Rey are torture buddies” in one of the Poe Dameron comics). It would have filled in a lot of blanks (like how Poe recognized Kylo on Crait, why Ben’s name was in the code to bring his X-wing to him — seriously, are there just a lot of “Bens” in the galaxy, Charles Soule? Does Poe have a cousin named Ben we don’t know about? — that whole thing in the TLJ novelization about Leia knowing Poe since he was a kid...even if you don’t ship Darkpilot, fine, but are we just going to pretend they never existed?). It would have added pathos. It would have been something we hadn’t seen in Star Wars before and yet the perfect twist for a melodramatic space opera. They didn’t have to go for lovers; any relationship between Poe and Kylo would have been fine.
So yeah, my dislike of Zorii isn’t a Die For Our Ship thing; I’m not childish enough to go that route. (Hell, maybe I’ll do a Zorii/Poe/Ben threesome in the future) I dislike the idea of her because she makes no goddamn sense, and any attempt at emotion with her and Poe was fist-fucked by the whole “what the fuck was that retcon?!” And it’s not like JJ gave me anything good to replace it with. That’s my problem with my Headcanons being Jossed; JJ’s not giving me anything that makes sense to replace it with. People who say “lol you’re just upset that your headcanons got sunk” are people who say that you’re spoiled for asking for better quality canon.
*Sighs* So yeah, Zorii, I don’t really hate your character; I thought you had a cool personality and a cool design, but your concept really got fist-fucked by the utter Ass Pull that was your history with Poe. If it’s all the same to you, I’ll be...I dunno, shipping Zorii with Lando or something.
-And speaking more of Ass Pulls, Hux being a Resistance spy? Are you shitting me? I mean, yeah, obvious fact that Hux hates Kylo is obvious, but motherfucker, if Hux hated Kylo so much, he would have tried staging his own coup, not deciding “y’know what, maybe I should sell intel to the Resistance”. I mean, Hux hates the Resistance. He made it abundantly clear in his Starkiller Base speech (and JJ worked on the script for TFA, so what’s his excuse?) that he hates them. Y’know, the “loathsome Resistance” and shit? Wouldn’t the not-obviously-high-on-crack option be to have Hux try and stage his own coup? Oh my God, the fanfics really are writing themselves, aren’t they?
(Though I guess fanfic’s no use. The movie’s already been released; unless we do Endgame-style time travel, we can’t undo what’s been done. Just...tell me fanfic still means something)
-Some stuff on screen was an obvious rip-off of the OT, like Palpatine forcing Rey to watch the fleet being destroyed, as well as Rey and Kylo’s conversation about her parentage.
-Rey and Kylo kissed. To quote Charlie Brown, auuuuuuuuuugh! It’s not just Darkpilot that I’m mourning, but FinnRey. (Seriously, what did FinnRey do to literally anyone?) It’s a bit weird because Kylo/Ben dies afterwards, but still, auuuuuuuuugh. (Yeah, that sound you heard? That was the sound of two ships sinking)
-Finn didn’t even get to have a rematch with Kylo. Just...auuuuuuuuugh! (It’s bizarre that the film seems allergic to anything interesting, and when they do decide to be interesting, it’s the what-crack-are-you-using-so-I-can-avoid-it interesting)
So it’s a weird case. Honestly, the Sequel Trilogy started out with really strong promise in Episode Seven. We had great characters, strong emotional moments...true, maybe the plot wasn’t the most original in the world, but it didn’t matter. We had great mysteries too — what happened to Kylo? What happened to Rey? Who is Snoke? Et cetera. And then the middle and end just fell apart. There were great ideas in TROS, but there were also a lot of bad ones that no one sat JJ down for and said, “Boss, lay off the crack.”
I’m actually proposing something that may get me ridiculed, but I don’t care: I’m rewriting the Sequel Trilogy. Even if nobody wants to read it, even if people think I’m a fool for trying. The Sequel Trilogy could have been truly the trilogy — after the disaster that was the old post-ROTJ EU, and the TOR MMO deciding to shit on Revan and the Exile — that saved Star Wars. Even if nobody cares what I have to write or say (which may be the case on AO3; writing a rare pairing does that to you), at least I’ll be trying. I hope.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 12:03 pm (UTC)They shit on Luke, now they shit on Palpatine. It's bad enough they shit all over Revan.
They keep shitting on my favorite characters.
The trilogy would have more meaning if Rey was a true Skywalker by being Han and Leia's daughter. It would have made more sense. I think this was what Lucas had intended but Kathleen Kennedy dismissed.
But they went with this probably as fan service for the Reylos. No judgement against the shippers, but changing the movie for fan service just doesn't feel right.
I might make a post to fully explain why making- keeping Rey- Ben's secret twin sister would have been more meaning- at least for me.
Yeah, a FinnRey or AceRey would have worked better.
Stephanie Janiczek was unintentionally hilarious with her rant, boy was she pissed. She spoke so much against the outrage of the "fandom menace" but now that their spoiler leaks proved right, wonder what she is thinking now. Funny she's quiet now.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 01:54 pm (UTC)I envy your stance on Reylos, I really do.
Yes! I mean, FinnRey really gave me adorable AttonExile vibes, so that helped.
And my condolences regarding you running across Janiczek. She’s a nasty piece of work.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 02:05 pm (UTC)I wish they had taken Rey through the classic hero's journey like they had with Luke. It works for a reason.
TBH, I avoid the Reylos. I've heard they've stalked Adam Driver's wife and all this crap. It is sad they were catered too with this movie, but I expected it. Lucas would have never done this, but Kennedy and her crew, I fully expected it.
LOL. I watch her for a laugh. I noticed she's a military wife. A lot of them- not all of them- tend to be nasty. Some of them are just all around awesome and amazing people to know, but many of them are rude and nasty. Boy, do I have some tales to tell about them from my time in the military.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 02:26 pm (UTC)Yeah, I heard that too. To be fair, there are Reylos out there who aren’t horrible, but the really horrible ones scream the loudest.
I’m definitely intrigued to hear said stories!
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 02:39 pm (UTC)Icon: Here's Palpy expressing his displeasure.
While it is "Legends" now, Darth Plagueis established Sheev Palpatine as ace. He just doesn't have interest in women. Or in anyone in a sexual way. Neither would he have allowed himself be put into an arranged marriage by his family, over whom he had some control through some surreptious Force tricks- hence why he was name (in)Sidious by Plagueis.
Yeah, it's not the ship itself. Some say it enables abuse, blah blah, but I think we know it's fictional and under control in our own spaces. It's the horrible Reylos who stand out.
The problems with the bad military wives was that they listen to their husbands whine about women in the military and they would carry that shitty attitude against women in the military. Maybe I'll tell the stories later.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 02:48 pm (UTC)Right. And the idea of Palpatine having sex is probably going to haunt my nightmares.
Exactly. (I guess that explains why you haven’t given me a lecture about writing Darkpilot...?)
Sounds awful. My condolences.
* God, I swear the Reylos who attacked the maker of that Emo Kylo Ren Twitter account make a powerful argument for internalized misogyny...
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 03:10 pm (UTC)What is wrong with Darkpilot? Is that the name of that awful fic itself, or is it the name for Poe and Ben? I can see where you are coming from.
Young Palpatine is hawt. I began a fic with an OC ship with Senator Normal Face Palpy. He's hawt in his elegant classic way. Never got back to it. Emperor WarpFace Palpy? Yeah, that's the stuff of nightmares. Or dirty old man kink, lol!
Thanks. There were a couple that made me genuinely angry. Some of those women were awful.
Seriously, Reylo is not a benchmark for female worth or female achievement in this world. Having fun with the ship is fine, but it doesn't make a good feminist argument. When it comes to feminism and inclusivity ReyFinn or ReyRose would go a lot further.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 04:08 pm (UTC)Honestly, as for why I ship them, there’s a popular theory (that’s probably dead as a doornail now. :/) that Ben/Kylo and Poe were friends and in the shipping interpretation, lovers before Ben became Kylo. It didn’t help that the scene where Poe was thrown at Kylo’s feet was a little weirdly shot (even my sibling’s fiancée spotted it!). And then I discovered fic about them, wrote fic, and I became attached to this ship because I thought it had a ton of potential. (It would have worked better than Poe being a spice dealer, especially since it bulldozes over his characterization in the comics and Before the Awakening)
Agreed. And ugh, sorry they pissed you off. And so agreed on FinnRey and ReyRose.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 04:35 pm (UTC)There used to be a pearl of wisdom that when we talk about rape fantasies that women have, is the little fact that it is a fantasy and that the woman is in control and in power about what she fantasizes about. This is the answer to all the neckbeards who complain about rape culture but the wahhhmen reading Fifty Shades of Gray. She's in control, dumb shit. Not you. It doesn't mean she wants to be raped. The same can be said about any of these ships that are problematic because of power and abuse. As long as that is established, no one should worry.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 04:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 04:41 pm (UTC)You should write that trilogy fic. Seriously.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 04:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 04:52 pm (UTC)Keep us informed!
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 04:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 03:31 pm (UTC)I was a supporter of Rey being a biological Skywalker ever since TFA (and I even still write it in AUs), so I'm still a tiny bit disappointed that that didn't turn out to be canon. And yeah, it's super freaking weird that the crazy fan theory of Rey being a Palpatine actually turned out to be true, but at least the movie let her really struggle with her heritage (and Ian McDirmand is still super-awesome).
"Seriously, what did FinnRey do to literally anyone?" I couldn't agree more. I really wish they hadn't caved to the Reylo shippers, especially since their relationship was fascinating and complex WITHOUT it being romantic. It really seemed like they felt pressure from the Reylo shippers, so they decided to throw them a bone - "There, they kissed! Happy now?" But I'm NOT going to call the kiss the end of Finn/Rey - Ben died and Finn kept having something he wanted to tell Rey, which I'll totally believe was that he loved her, so I'm headcanoning that they still got together.
I still loved the movie, though.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 03:53 pm (UTC)Funny thing is, I swear my assuming fake spoilers struck again because when I accidentally got spoiled about Hux being the spy, I thought, “Oh come on; it’s a fake leak, there’s no way that they would go this route with Hux.” Considering I initially thought the death of Han was a fake spoiler, I guess my arbitrary calling-bullshit strikes again. (And I pretty much almost completely forgot I saw the Rey Palpatine spoiler until I saw the movie, so I kind of went “what?!” when I saw the reveal)
But yeah, you’re definitely right about Hux. And Reylo, for that matter. I mean, I never saw their relationship as anything other than a weird kinship/Worthy Opponent thing. I definitely didn’t see the stars-they’re-totally-boinking subtext. And I do admire you, Esme — it is definitely possible that Finn and Rey got together.
And I did like how Rey’s parentage was used to create character development for her. I guess I thought it was just out of left field for me. And yes, Ian McDiarmid is a national fucking treasure. Enough said.
* And yes, the people who are going on about SJW propaganda are still childish morons, but that goes without saying. ;-)
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 06:41 pm (UTC)And yeah, I think a whole lot of the "OMG THEY'RE SO TOTALLY IN LOVE!" subtext that Reylo shippers insist is there is wishful thinking (even with the shirtless Kylo scene). Rey finds Kylo fascinating, definitely, but that doesn't mean romance. (I find Kylo fascinating, but that doesn't mean I want to marry him.)
And oh yes, the Han scene! The whole theater erupted in cheers when he appeared - OMG, I WAS SO HAPPY!!
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 09:48 pm (UTC)This was so stupid what the actual fuck.
Like I don't even agree with you on the Poe bit? I thought most of his responses were just... reasonable/how he is, but it got so ridiculous by the end? Just how many times can Kylo crawl up from some dark wet hole??! Looks like he's got some magic fingers (and if he does someone needs to write some good smut asap!!).
I'm honestly tempted to rewrite the trilogy as well, but let's be honest — you're more likely to finish it (and make it oh so wonderful), I shouldn't even try. Fuck... My brain's literally mush at this point. I can't digest all of this.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 10:21 pm (UTC)And thank you. Really. I’m glad you think I’d do it justice; there are times I doubt my writing skills because I don’t get much recognition on AO3. So I am glad that my writing works for at least a few people. :)
Also, *hugs*. Honestly, I will miss Kylo, and wish he’d gotten a better end. I’m glad he redeemed himself, but him dying shortly afterwards...holy shit was that such a ripoff of Vader’s death.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 10:29 pm (UTC)but also I'm so sorry you couldn't enjoy Poe. For me the weirdest bit was that I almost didn't notice when Leia died. Like what the fuck. At that point, Poe can be as much of an asshole as he wants.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 10:57 pm (UTC)And it’s not your fault; it’s JJ’s. I agree that after Leia’s death it’s understandable if he was an asshole, but...I guess it got to me because I fell in love with Poe for being kind, fundamentally. And yeah, he’s obviously not Superman, but it felt like JJ did a 180 from his characterization. (That’s just me, though)
no subject
Date: 2019-12-21 11:11 pm (UTC)I got a bit scared bc of your analysis before, but now after having seen it, I don't have much of an issue with Poe. Some of it, I think, is because we can't give him the Luke treatment at this point. No matter what they write, we'll most likely ignore.
I was kind of excited about the spice backstory, but the romance was so hamfisted, I'm not sure I can have breakfast tomorrow.
no subject
Date: 2019-12-22 12:13 am (UTC)And that’s a good idea. And yeah, Zorii’s a cool character, but I definitely don’t ship her with Poe.
no subject
Date: 2020-02-01 09:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-02-01 09:51 pm (UTC)