What I Want To See In Episode Eight
Sep. 28th, 2016 08:06 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ladyofleithianBecause a lot of the Episode Eight news I'm hearing isn't particularly encouraging (and makes me want to head-wall repeatedly), I'm mostly thinking of doing this for fun. Sort of like what I did four years ago, with this. And I guess before I proceed, I really should rack up some stuff from that post and see how TFA matched up. Comments from old post in italics, my comments in regular format.
-A return to STAR WARS roots. I'll admit that DOCTOR WHO's seduced me recently, and while I still love STAR WARS, there are places where my relationship isn't quite the same. I think that if Disney could help remind other people why they fell in love with STAR WARS in the first place, that would be pretty damn cool. :) The starship battles, the lightsaber fights, the character beats, the romance (it is a space opera, after all)...I say a return to the roots, so to speak, would be pretty cool.
Honestly...yes. Some people did say (and I can see their points) that TFA felt a little too much like the Original Trilogy's Greatest Hits, but it really did do a good job of differentiating as well. So far, Rey is definitely a nice contrast from Luke -- a young woman who really has to struggle to survive. (As for some of the skills she has -- I can't say about the mind trick, but the piloting thing was addressed in a bit of supplemental material, and the other stuff...well, her skill with mechanics is something she likely used on Jakku, her way of escaping calls back to her introductory scene where she's basically climbing on poles, and her fighting skills were likely picked up from the fact that Jakku is a pretty dangerous place and you have to watch your back) Finn is a great twist on the stormtrooper character, Poe is awesome, and the First Order is differentiated from the Empire in the fact that they seem to believe in the righteousness of what they do, while the Empire mostly wanted to conquer. Snoke definitely seems to have an agenda of his own (and I guess what I am wondering is why he's so obsessed with the idea of Kylo Ren being a balance of both Light and Dark. Even Palpatine didn't care about that stuff when he was recruiting Anakin, so methinks Snoke has this weird plan involving the Force), Ren is definitely more conflicted than even Vader was (if only because we get a look at the inside of his head), etc. And Han...one could argue he plays the straightforward Obi-Wan role, but things definitely get more complicated when he comes face to face with Kylo on Takodana and, later, Starkiller Base.
On a sidenote, I think even the script offers some stuff that I find interesting. When Han says "there was too much Vader in [Kylo]", the script (if I recall correctly, of course) says that it's actually something Han doesn't want to admit. Is it possible that Han might have had a lot of faith in his son and that got shaken a bit before Leia gave him a bit of encouragement? I think it might be the case. And then there's her reasoning for sending Han: "Luke is a Jedi. You're his father." It's at least likely that before Ben fell, he and Han had a very close, loving relationship. Though I am wondering...why that phrasing? It just seems like such an odd way of phrasing things. "Luke is a Jedi, you're his father." Maybe I'm overanalyzing things.
- -A further exploration of Luke. Sort of how he feels post-Death Star II and whatnot. Not to mention him learning more about the Jedi's history and making a conscious decision to avoid the mistakes of his mentors. And his parents.
Not really. But I guess it was a good thing for me, at least -- it gave me some time to think. As for not making his mentors' mistakes...not so much.
- This was already vetoed, really, but I actually wish that it was based on HEIR TO THE EMPIRE-THE LAST COMMAND, at least to an extent. Not only would it have some Mara Jade and Thrawn appearances, which would be pretty awesome, but it would also be a good way of showing the fallout post-Galactic Civil War. Granted, the articles have nixed that idea, but at least something along these lines would be pretty neat.
Actually, Star Wars Rebels just recently featured Thrawn, so I think Thrawn (and Mara?) making a comeback is very likely. I don't know where they would fit in, but I'm interested to see it. No Thrawn here, but the film did show the fallout post-Galactic Civil War.
- Vader and Padme featuring in the films. Because seriously, I think they need scenes with their kids. How Padme can do it...well, that's really up to the writers.
Well, Vader's helmet had a cameo. (And I can just picture Anakin's reaction. "What in space did my grandson do with my helmet?!")
- Leia dealing with the truth of Vader's legacy. Because I think that would be interesting to see.
In a very nasty way, it did happen.
- A few more shades of gray. Don't necessarily have to be there, but it would be nice to see, at least. :)
Yes, actually. At least in Ren's character. He can be ruthless, sarcastic, pretty vicious, and he has a lot of anger management issues, but he is also conflicted, insecure, and can even be capable of a gentler side (Rey is pretty obvious, but there is also Han, when he unmasks, briefly, at Han's request). It's another place where he differentiates himself from Vader -- Vader took at least two movies before his gentler streak shone through, while Ren's gentler streak is made more obvious out of the gate. Vader's very steely, cold, while Ren mostly tries very hard to be but unfortunately has those pesky vulnerable moments shining through. I guess in the end that's what makes him interesting -- those moments of softness that just seem to shine through.
And I think what makes this film not a complete redo of The Original Trilogy's Greatest Hits is the characterization. Han's not the wise old mentor; he's very vulnerable. The stormtrooper defects. The Vader figure is struggling to get the hang of things.
- -Luke rebuilding the Order. And preferably without the galaxy getting fucked over again later.
Not so much. Thanks, Snoke! /sarcasm.
- -In terms of directors...well, some have suggested Whedon, but I think his style is a lot different than the usual...y'know. Still, I suppose if Irvin Kershner could pull off ESB, I don't see why not. Then again, Joss is mostly busy, as are Nolan, Abrams, etc. I'm thinking Nicholas Meyer of WRATH OF KHAN fame. Because that would be awesome. :3 And maybe collaborating with Michael Arndt and Brenda Chapman, assuming Chapman's working on it. Alternatively, John Lasseter could do it. Or Guillermo Del Toro.
Abrams apparently wasn't that busy. And honestly? He did well. I think what I like about him is that he can do likable characters and really intense emotional scenes. Han's death being a standout. Him reaching up to touch his son's face before he falls really just tops it off. And both Into Darkness and TFA really do have an undercurrent of compassion in them (so does the 2009 Star Trek, actually, when Kirk tries saving Nero. It doesn't work, but he tried), which I guess really gives them a special place in my heart. Compassion just seems rare in the fiction I've read and watched at times (it's sort of like some of the characters I've read and watched care more about being right than being kind), so maybe that's why it means a lot here. (And I guess I'm fearing Rian Johnson is going to screw it up by making Luke overpowered again and Kylo Ren a one-dimensional villain)
So I guess the moral of the story is, I can't really predict the future.
Now, in terms of what I hope to see in Episode Eight (it's probably asking too much, but here's what I'm hoping):
-Don't God Mode Luke. I mean, the guy doesn't need God Moding. I'm pretty sure that the world isn't going to turn on its axis if we see him struggle a bit against his nephew for any reason. Emotionally, physically, what-have-you. In fact, the world didn't turn on its axis when they made him struggle against Vader in ESB. It instead contributed to one of the best movie climaxes.
-While we're on the subject, make Luke and Kylo's dynamic believable. If Luke's a jerk like he was in LOTF, hopefully it's addressed. But mostly, I was thinking a very complicated mixture of feelings -- anger and outrage, yes, but also some love leftover for the man his nephew was.
-Personally, I am kind of hoping that Snoke is a new character and not Plagueis, Jar-Jar, etc. And we get some interesting backstory on him. The First Order's mentality wasn't created in a vacuum, so we could definitely get some answers on Snoke. Where did he come from? How did he get so badly scarred? What drove him to create the First Order? What are his plans that Andy Serkis talked about, as well as his more vulnerable side? And what about his obsession with Ren and him having both sides of the Force in him? How much is he manipulating Ren? Pablo Hidalgo says that Leia knew him, but did Han? After all, he does talk about Snoke on the bridge like he's a bit too familiar with him. Was he a fallen Jedi, or a Dark Sider from the start? Is Snoke his real name or just an alias? There's definitely a lot of questions surrounding Snoke and I'm hoping Episode Eight answers a few of them.
-I would like to know more about Kylo Ren. I have a feeling that what we saw in TFA was just the tip of a very big iceberg.
-Rey. I think learning more about her would be interesting. And her training developing -- Luke likely teaching her to control her anger and such so the Dark Side doesn't nearly catch her again. I guess another thing I like about Rey (besides her compassion, her vulnerability, her strength, her sense of humor, etc.) is that she has a lot of goodness and decency in her, but also a really vicious dark streak.
-Kylo and Rey. I will be honest, I'm not much of a Kylo/Rey person (although the shippers have come close. I might create a separate verse just for that). I see the both of them as a bit like Jamie Lloyd and Michael Myers in Halloween 4 and 5 -- Rey being a pinpoint of softness in Kylo Ren. (Ren even looks a bit like Michael in Halloween 5, but that's off-topic) But I can't see the romantic vibe. That being said, I would like to see more interactions with them. And I can't see Ren, as one rumor goes, being angry about Rey beating him in combat. How do I know this? Because (a) he was practically singing her praises to Snoke after she blocked him from her mind and (b) when she summons Luke's lightsaber, in contrast to when Finn had it and Ren was pretty much "Mine! Mine! Mine!" (then again, Ren seems to have a really personal sort of hatred for Finn), he just has this look of amazement on his face when Rey does it. So do you really think he'd be angry about Rey beating him? It just seems out of character for him. (Rey honestly seems to be one of the few people Ren doesn't have contempt for. The others being Han -- and his relationship is more complicated -- Snoke, and, obviously, Vader)
Also, why exactly did Ren flip out as he did when Mitaka (the guy unfortunate enough to witness Ren's first console-destroying moment) mentioned "a girl"? He didn't even hear Rey's name, and he seemed pretty familiar with her. Whether it's familial or no, he definitely seems to have some sort of history with her.
-Leia and Ben. Honestly, I am dreading this one just because doing my own version of Ben's backstory, etc. seems to have resurrected old questions. Mostly regarding how badly they handled things in LOTF. And I'm scared of any form of LOTF!Leia ending up on screen. Or her being made into a saint and Han into a demon like some bits of fanon do (because Han's the father, I'm guessing. :/). I don't want her demonized either. I think the more balanced approach -- Leia being a loving if flawed mother trying to not make the same mistakes her parents did -- would work more. And it would be in character. I mean, I doubt that she and Han set out from the moment Ben was born to ruin his life. (I'm aware of how damning-by-faint-praise it sounds, but it's true)
-It's unlikely, but it would be wonderful if they reincorporated some KOTOR canon into the film.
That's all I can think of, at least. Thoughts? Comments? Disagreements? I'm definitely open.
-A return to STAR WARS roots. I'll admit that DOCTOR WHO's seduced me recently, and while I still love STAR WARS, there are places where my relationship isn't quite the same. I think that if Disney could help remind other people why they fell in love with STAR WARS in the first place, that would be pretty damn cool. :) The starship battles, the lightsaber fights, the character beats, the romance (it is a space opera, after all)...I say a return to the roots, so to speak, would be pretty cool.
Honestly...yes. Some people did say (and I can see their points) that TFA felt a little too much like the Original Trilogy's Greatest Hits, but it really did do a good job of differentiating as well. So far, Rey is definitely a nice contrast from Luke -- a young woman who really has to struggle to survive. (As for some of the skills she has -- I can't say about the mind trick, but the piloting thing was addressed in a bit of supplemental material, and the other stuff...well, her skill with mechanics is something she likely used on Jakku, her way of escaping calls back to her introductory scene where she's basically climbing on poles, and her fighting skills were likely picked up from the fact that Jakku is a pretty dangerous place and you have to watch your back) Finn is a great twist on the stormtrooper character, Poe is awesome, and the First Order is differentiated from the Empire in the fact that they seem to believe in the righteousness of what they do, while the Empire mostly wanted to conquer. Snoke definitely seems to have an agenda of his own (and I guess what I am wondering is why he's so obsessed with the idea of Kylo Ren being a balance of both Light and Dark. Even Palpatine didn't care about that stuff when he was recruiting Anakin, so methinks Snoke has this weird plan involving the Force), Ren is definitely more conflicted than even Vader was (if only because we get a look at the inside of his head), etc. And Han...one could argue he plays the straightforward Obi-Wan role, but things definitely get more complicated when he comes face to face with Kylo on Takodana and, later, Starkiller Base.
On a sidenote, I think even the script offers some stuff that I find interesting. When Han says "there was too much Vader in [Kylo]", the script (if I recall correctly, of course) says that it's actually something Han doesn't want to admit. Is it possible that Han might have had a lot of faith in his son and that got shaken a bit before Leia gave him a bit of encouragement? I think it might be the case. And then there's her reasoning for sending Han: "Luke is a Jedi. You're his father." It's at least likely that before Ben fell, he and Han had a very close, loving relationship. Though I am wondering...why that phrasing? It just seems like such an odd way of phrasing things. "Luke is a Jedi, you're his father." Maybe I'm overanalyzing things.
- -A further exploration of Luke. Sort of how he feels post-Death Star II and whatnot. Not to mention him learning more about the Jedi's history and making a conscious decision to avoid the mistakes of his mentors. And his parents.
Not really. But I guess it was a good thing for me, at least -- it gave me some time to think. As for not making his mentors' mistakes...not so much.
- This was already vetoed, really, but I actually wish that it was based on HEIR TO THE EMPIRE-THE LAST COMMAND, at least to an extent. Not only would it have some Mara Jade and Thrawn appearances, which would be pretty awesome, but it would also be a good way of showing the fallout post-Galactic Civil War. Granted, the articles have nixed that idea, but at least something along these lines would be pretty neat.
Actually, Star Wars Rebels just recently featured Thrawn, so I think Thrawn (and Mara?) making a comeback is very likely. I don't know where they would fit in, but I'm interested to see it. No Thrawn here, but the film did show the fallout post-Galactic Civil War.
- Vader and Padme featuring in the films. Because seriously, I think they need scenes with their kids. How Padme can do it...well, that's really up to the writers.
Well, Vader's helmet had a cameo. (And I can just picture Anakin's reaction. "What in space did my grandson do with my helmet?!")
- Leia dealing with the truth of Vader's legacy. Because I think that would be interesting to see.
In a very nasty way, it did happen.
- A few more shades of gray. Don't necessarily have to be there, but it would be nice to see, at least. :)
Yes, actually. At least in Ren's character. He can be ruthless, sarcastic, pretty vicious, and he has a lot of anger management issues, but he is also conflicted, insecure, and can even be capable of a gentler side (Rey is pretty obvious, but there is also Han, when he unmasks, briefly, at Han's request). It's another place where he differentiates himself from Vader -- Vader took at least two movies before his gentler streak shone through, while Ren's gentler streak is made more obvious out of the gate. Vader's very steely, cold, while Ren mostly tries very hard to be but unfortunately has those pesky vulnerable moments shining through. I guess in the end that's what makes him interesting -- those moments of softness that just seem to shine through.
And I think what makes this film not a complete redo of The Original Trilogy's Greatest Hits is the characterization. Han's not the wise old mentor; he's very vulnerable. The stormtrooper defects. The Vader figure is struggling to get the hang of things.
- -Luke rebuilding the Order. And preferably without the galaxy getting fucked over again later.
Not so much. Thanks, Snoke! /sarcasm.
- -In terms of directors...well, some have suggested Whedon, but I think his style is a lot different than the usual...y'know. Still, I suppose if Irvin Kershner could pull off ESB, I don't see why not. Then again, Joss is mostly busy, as are Nolan, Abrams, etc. I'm thinking Nicholas Meyer of WRATH OF KHAN fame. Because that would be awesome. :3 And maybe collaborating with Michael Arndt and Brenda Chapman, assuming Chapman's working on it. Alternatively, John Lasseter could do it. Or Guillermo Del Toro.
Abrams apparently wasn't that busy. And honestly? He did well. I think what I like about him is that he can do likable characters and really intense emotional scenes. Han's death being a standout. Him reaching up to touch his son's face before he falls really just tops it off. And both Into Darkness and TFA really do have an undercurrent of compassion in them (so does the 2009 Star Trek, actually, when Kirk tries saving Nero. It doesn't work, but he tried), which I guess really gives them a special place in my heart. Compassion just seems rare in the fiction I've read and watched at times (it's sort of like some of the characters I've read and watched care more about being right than being kind), so maybe that's why it means a lot here. (And I guess I'm fearing Rian Johnson is going to screw it up by making Luke overpowered again and Kylo Ren a one-dimensional villain)
So I guess the moral of the story is, I can't really predict the future.
Now, in terms of what I hope to see in Episode Eight (it's probably asking too much, but here's what I'm hoping):
-Don't God Mode Luke. I mean, the guy doesn't need God Moding. I'm pretty sure that the world isn't going to turn on its axis if we see him struggle a bit against his nephew for any reason. Emotionally, physically, what-have-you. In fact, the world didn't turn on its axis when they made him struggle against Vader in ESB. It instead contributed to one of the best movie climaxes.
-While we're on the subject, make Luke and Kylo's dynamic believable. If Luke's a jerk like he was in LOTF, hopefully it's addressed. But mostly, I was thinking a very complicated mixture of feelings -- anger and outrage, yes, but also some love leftover for the man his nephew was.
-Personally, I am kind of hoping that Snoke is a new character and not Plagueis, Jar-Jar, etc. And we get some interesting backstory on him. The First Order's mentality wasn't created in a vacuum, so we could definitely get some answers on Snoke. Where did he come from? How did he get so badly scarred? What drove him to create the First Order? What are his plans that Andy Serkis talked about, as well as his more vulnerable side? And what about his obsession with Ren and him having both sides of the Force in him? How much is he manipulating Ren? Pablo Hidalgo says that Leia knew him, but did Han? After all, he does talk about Snoke on the bridge like he's a bit too familiar with him. Was he a fallen Jedi, or a Dark Sider from the start? Is Snoke his real name or just an alias? There's definitely a lot of questions surrounding Snoke and I'm hoping Episode Eight answers a few of them.
-I would like to know more about Kylo Ren. I have a feeling that what we saw in TFA was just the tip of a very big iceberg.
-Rey. I think learning more about her would be interesting. And her training developing -- Luke likely teaching her to control her anger and such so the Dark Side doesn't nearly catch her again. I guess another thing I like about Rey (besides her compassion, her vulnerability, her strength, her sense of humor, etc.) is that she has a lot of goodness and decency in her, but also a really vicious dark streak.
-Kylo and Rey. I will be honest, I'm not much of a Kylo/Rey person (although the shippers have come close. I might create a separate verse just for that). I see the both of them as a bit like Jamie Lloyd and Michael Myers in Halloween 4 and 5 -- Rey being a pinpoint of softness in Kylo Ren. (Ren even looks a bit like Michael in Halloween 5, but that's off-topic) But I can't see the romantic vibe. That being said, I would like to see more interactions with them. And I can't see Ren, as one rumor goes, being angry about Rey beating him in combat. How do I know this? Because (a) he was practically singing her praises to Snoke after she blocked him from her mind and (b) when she summons Luke's lightsaber, in contrast to when Finn had it and Ren was pretty much "Mine! Mine! Mine!" (then again, Ren seems to have a really personal sort of hatred for Finn), he just has this look of amazement on his face when Rey does it. So do you really think he'd be angry about Rey beating him? It just seems out of character for him. (Rey honestly seems to be one of the few people Ren doesn't have contempt for. The others being Han -- and his relationship is more complicated -- Snoke, and, obviously, Vader)
Also, why exactly did Ren flip out as he did when Mitaka (the guy unfortunate enough to witness Ren's first console-destroying moment) mentioned "a girl"? He didn't even hear Rey's name, and he seemed pretty familiar with her. Whether it's familial or no, he definitely seems to have some sort of history with her.
-Leia and Ben. Honestly, I am dreading this one just because doing my own version of Ben's backstory, etc. seems to have resurrected old questions. Mostly regarding how badly they handled things in LOTF. And I'm scared of any form of LOTF!Leia ending up on screen. Or her being made into a saint and Han into a demon like some bits of fanon do (because Han's the father, I'm guessing. :/). I don't want her demonized either. I think the more balanced approach -- Leia being a loving if flawed mother trying to not make the same mistakes her parents did -- would work more. And it would be in character. I mean, I doubt that she and Han set out from the moment Ben was born to ruin his life. (I'm aware of how damning-by-faint-praise it sounds, but it's true)
-It's unlikely, but it would be wonderful if they reincorporated some KOTOR canon into the film.
That's all I can think of, at least. Thoughts? Comments? Disagreements? I'm definitely open.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2016-10-19 11:54 pm (UTC)Other than that, I agree mostly. Only addition is I greatly want Force Sensitive!Finn to be a thing. /o/
no subject
Date: 2016-10-20 05:29 pm (UTC)I know, right? I mean, a lot of the hatred on Tumblr for the Reylo shippers is completely uncalled for. It's really one of those reasons I don't regret leaving Tumblr behind (along with the fiasco in the TGWTG fandom there). That and, like you said, multishipping is almost impossible there. In terms of comms, well...there is one here: http://reylo-love.livejournal.com/. It's kind of new and everything, but it definitely sounds like a good haven to just discuss the ship. And here: http://reylos.livejournal.com/. (Took a while for me to find the other one, but it's definitely worth it)
And thanks! And yes, Force Sensitive Finn would be amazing. I think it would actually explain a lot too, including how well he handles Anakin's lightsaber in the forest duel.
Date: 2016-10-19 11:56 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2016-10-20 04:57 pm (UTC)Also, it's so good to see you. *Hugs*