Current status of the USS Hadhafang
Aug. 5th, 2016 12:24 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ladyofleithianHey. Mostly getting back to catching up on my Star Trek stuff as I'm preparing on seeing BEYOND at one point. (Thinking of going with a friend) I decided to start by catching up on the movies -- trying THE FINAL FRONTIER first. (Insert cries of "Why, why would you do that to yourself" here)
How was it? Well, it was a pretty interesting experience. I have a lot to talk about. Also, a warning beforehand, besides discussing spoilers, I may also be touching on some content that's rather triggering/disturbing later on. So, be careful.
First things first, I pretty much know everything there is to know about the production disasters of the film. The production disasters regarding Star Trek The Motion Picture I actually had to learn about from![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
4thofeleven (also, thank you, 4thofeleven), but the production disasters and the flaws of The Final Frontier...well, let's say it's had one of the most infamous production disasters since, say, Halloween 6: The Curse of Michael Myers (complete with Executive Meddling!). The Nostalgia Critic's given his five cents, so has SF Debris, and Linkara had some comments about the movie when he was reviewing the comic (which is actually a decent review). I would otherwise sort of be repeating everything that's already been said, so I might as well give my own perspectives on things people have talked about.
First off, the effects. A lot of people have mocked the effects, and to be fair, some of them...really could use a little work. There's the Great Barrier (and I know that the Critic basically mocked the fuck out of it, even comparing it to the Ring of Fire from Finding Nemo, but the novelization actually has a good explanation for it -- Sybok kind of tells Scotty to modify the shields so they can get through without getting too battered, apparently. That's what I read, at least. I think it would have been a good idea to include in the film, just to get a plothole removed), which...I don't know. It looks like it could be a lot better. It kind of looks like someone spilled their watercolors all over the galaxy:
And then there's this -- basically when they arrive on Shakaree (the planet that the antagonist, Sybok's, looking for. You're probably wondering why a Vulcan would go looking for God, but as you see throughout the movie, Sybok's not your ordinary Vulcan. He's basically Counselor Troi if she were genderflipped and had a talent for digging up your worst memories and kind of using them as a motivator for you joining him. Hell, I actually wondered if his shtick sort of had a bit of Betazed in him, but a deleted line from the original script about it being an old Vulcan technique that the Vulcans eventually decided to not touch with a ten-foot pole...that shot that down pretty quick. My mind goes to weird places, I guess), it's supposed to be a sort of galactic paradise, but while it's pretty, it kind of looks like someone overused the purple filter a bit:
And the original stuff involving the rock monster...well...
Yeah, let's say it's a case of "great concept, needs better execution". I mean, the rock monster looks like it's wearing a cat smile. Sort of like this:
That being said, while the effects are pretty mediocre at best (they're not the worst I've seen; let's say that "honor" goes to a movie I watched once, a 2003 horror film called Fear of the Dark where the monsters looked like a live-action version of the mayor from The Nightmare Before Christmas. And I guess that proves I haven't watched enough bad movies), there are actually moments where the cinematography is absolutely gorgeous. There's the opening scene on Nimbus III, for example, which is actually beautifully shot.
(Sorry, that was the best cap I could actually get of that scene. Let's say finding caps of Nimbus III was a pain to do)
And then there's the introductory shot of our main antagonist, Sybok, which is also really well-shot.
Then the dismounting:
That's a sort of opening shot that I actually like, the matter of the antagonist sort of coming out of the dust to confront the person whose life has...really been shot to hell. Also, one thing I noticed about Sybok -- the actor who plays him, Laurence Luckinbill actually has the right voice for the guy. He has a pretty interesting performance, I think -- it can kind of veer between being very soft-voiced and understated and kind of...well, if anyone's seen the Broadway adaptation of Beauty and the Beast (or own the soundtrack, as I do), the way Sybok sounds on stuff like "I thought weapons were forbidden on this planet" actually sounds a bit like...how the Beast sounds in that adaptation. Both actually work, believe it or not. There's a scene later in the film when he's confronting Kirk, McCoy and Spock, trying to sort of make them see his side of things, and Kirk accuses him of mind-controlling the crew, and Sybok has an interesting reaction to this: "I don't control minds. I free them." All the while actually sounding genuinely dismayed by Kirk's comment. I guess he is sincere about wanting to help those under his, for lack of a better word, tutelage. The way he executes it is pretty creepy when you reexamine it, but it's clear that he's not doing this for the sake of sadism, but because he believes he's actually trying to help. Even in the original script, in contrast to Talbot (one of the ambassadors) calling the settlers basically savages turning on one another, it mentions that most of the people in Sybok's army are beings, basically, that were dealt a bad hand and the Federation (after the drought happened and Nimbus III failed) couldn't give a rat's ass about them. And to be honest? I believe that. Maybe there were some psychopaths in there, but J'onn the farmer didn't do anything (mentioned onscreen) particularly terrible. Well, he broke the law by owning a gun, but from his point of view, he was defending himself against someone he thought was a threat. Otherwise, he didn't seem like a really awful person (the novelization even kind of mentions that he recently lost and was grieving over his wife in addition to his farm being shot to hell), and I guess it proves once again, fuck the Just World Fallacy. (I just feel bad for J'onn. No wonder he basically glommed onto Sybok first chance he got; Sybok was probably the only person to give a shit about him. And if the rest of the situation on Nimbus III is anything like J'onn's...well, that's not right. Or fair. And to hell with the Prime Directive, honestly, or there's-no-hope-for-these-people -- everyone deserves help)
Also, on a sidenote, one thing I noticed about Sybok (and maybe this is me being in fanfiction for way, way too long) was that when he's around J'onn, he kind of...well, I guess the best way to put it is, he kind of gets a bit handsy with the farmer:
And it's not just the farmer; when he's doing his work for McCoy, he kind of gets handsy with him as well:
Put it this way, if he were doing this with say, Caithlin Dar or Uhura, people would have immediately picked up on it. And yeah, maybe it's just the matter of the mind meld and how it works, but I don't think they really got that close.
Back on topic, there's the matter of the image of Sybok just kind of coming out of the dust.
Funny thing is when I first saw the Nostalgia Critic's review, I actually couldn't shake the idea of him looking a bit like Kevin Flynn from Tron Legacy. I'm serious:
I'm a little creeped out now. They don't look entirely alike, but it's close enough.
Then there's the hood reveal, which is a pretty good shot:
If I have a bit of a beef with this, it's that Laurence Luckinbill (who plays Sybok) doesn't look much like Leonard Nimoy. Maybe a bit with the eyebrows and such, but otherwise...not so much. (Yeah, I know, I should probably get some perspective...)
There's also the scene of Kirk climbing up El Capitan, which...yeah, it drags really long (I mean, it's been a while since I watched Star Trek: The Motion Picture, but I don't think that it lasted that long in certain shots), but it's beautifully shot:
So when the cinematography works, it really does honest-to-God work. The rest of it is...all right, I suppose. Best I can say about the rest of it and the effects is that at best, they're mediocre.
On a sidenote, according to a clip that Linkara had in his review of the comic adaptation, William Shatner basically said that Kirk's climb up El Capitan was a metaphor for him, um (and this is going to likely break somebody's brain if I haven't already done so, and I'm very very sorry)...having intercourse with it. I'm Not Making This Up.
Yeah...
(Yeah, not Star Trek V related, but it does kind of sum up my reaction)
About the humor...yeah, I admit it, I groaned at the puns, and I'm not usually a person who dislikes puns. (I...kind of see them too much) But there were some moments that were actually pretty good. I thought that the Chekov and Sulu lost-in-a-blizzard scene was ridiculous, but Walter Koenig's delivery of the line, "Sulu, look, the sun's come out! It's a miracle!" was amazing, sort of like Chekov's wondering "Why is my life like this?" (I mean, seriously, I think that's why he ended up turning to Sybok's side -- he was tired of basically being the series' Chew Toy. When you're beaten up and mind-controlled by a vengeful warlord who has an axe to grind with your captain, hit your head running from the cops in San Francisco, and have a pretty embarrassing moment of getting lost in the woods with Sulu, not to mention some other stuff that I probably don't remember/don't know about, you kind of have to hit your why-does-this-bullshit-happen-to-me limit at some point) Also during the mountain climbing scene when Spock says "Doctor McCoy isn't in the best of moods" (something about Leonard Nimoy's delivery is wonderful. And on another note, R.I.P., Nimoy. You were awesome, man) and it cuts to poor McCoy nearly having a heart attack watching Kirk climb that thing. And grumbling. A lot. And though the new Enterprise not working was kind of overkill at times, Scotty grumbling about the ship being put together by monkeys was pretty chuckle-worthy. And the sheer amount of you've-got-to-be-kidding-me in Kirk's voice when he says to Sybok "You staged this to get your hands on my
ship?" Otherwise, I'd say some of the humor kind of fell flat.
(On a sidenote, what happened to Sybok's ship? I mean, did it meet the same fate that Poe Dameron's ship met on Jakku, or was the deity-impersonator just really, really picky about what kind of ship he wanted? Or when he was exiled, was he just dropped off like Rey was on Jakku -- a ship just dropped him off, flew away, and left him on what was sort of like Star Trek's version of the Viewaskewniverse's version of Wisconsin in Dogma -- and what was I thinking with that triple crossover? * Yeah, I know you can say "Because plot holes", but I really am curious...)
In terms of the film being a love letter to Kirk -- that's basically one of the accusations leveled at it, that it's basically a look-how-awesome-Kirk-is fest -- I can actually see that. I mean, Kirk's pretty much the one between him, Bones and Spock to call bullshit on what Sybok's doing and say that pain can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand, pain makes you who you are, yadda yadda et cetera et cetera (and even putting that aside, there was something about that quote that rubbed me the wrong way. I don't know why, but it did), Klaa wants to defeat him in battle to gain glory and praises Kirk for something that was clearly Sulu's (it says that much in the original script about how the Klingons are admiring Kirk for his cleverness never mind that it was Sulu who basically pulled off the whole Landing Plan B thing), Bob (the guy who ends up sending the Enterprise on the rescue mission that ultimately gets spectacularly derailed) pretty much says that Kirk is the only captain they can send on that rescue mission, the original plan for The Final Frontier was everyone, and I mean everyone, turning against Kirk, including Spock and McCoy, before Leonard Nimoy and DeForrest Kelley basically said, "Nuh uh, not doing it." And then there's Sybok himself. While he is pretty much the only one in the film who really can stand up to Kirk and pose as a threat against him (Kirk's attempt at rescuing the hostages goes pear-shaped and he, McCoy and Spock end up getting captured by Sybok and company, a lot of the ship gets turned to Sybok's side of things after he manages to tap into their past traumas and he ultimately ends up taking over the ship **), he also kind of occasionally falls into the Kirk-worship himself. For example, the "I see! Very clever, Captain" after the reveal of Kirk being the actual Captain (though I'd say Chekov does a decent job as the Captain decoy considering the circumstances. I'd say that it was stuff that entirely was not Chekov's fault that caused his cover to get blown) *** and he seems kind of...obsessed with trying to get Kirk's approval (he even says it himself. "Captain Kirk, I so much want your understanding. I want your respect. Are you afraid to hear me out?" Link here: http://www.actorama.com/ms/930/David-Loughery/Star-Trek-V:-The-Final-Frontier.). And Kirk's the one who asks "What does God need with a starship?" The others definitely get their moments, but Kirk kind of seems to get the good ones. (And Uhura...well, I'll get to her in a bit) And there seems to be a bit of a Kirk-is-the-coolest-thing-ever thing in the film.
That being said, there's actually a part in this that I think is probably too vital for a footnote and definitely contradicts what I said above at least a little (then again, I am kind of more examining the argument some more): of all the people on the Enterprise that Sybok wants approval from, Spock actually seems to outrank Kirk. SF Debris actually said in his review of Star Trek V that they missed an opportunity in the movie, why didn't Sybok express more interest in the fact that Spock basically underwent a Lazarus in Search for Spock, etc., but honestly? I don't think they needed that. **** I think the fact that they're half-brothers is definitely justification enough. Maybe I just have too much of a weakness for the Rameses-and-Moses sort of story for my own good, but I think the fact that Sybok very likely loved his half-brother dearly was definitely enough to account for pretty much dropping everything and running towards Spock:
Then there's everything else. There's the original script where it says explicitly that Spock's really the only one he trusts on the shuttle (even above Korrd, who's a Klingon and one of his recruits) when he's getting more than a bit anxious about his trip to Sha'karee getting delayed, there's his repeated attempts to get Spock to join him (hell, second time he does it, he's too happy to throw McCoy and Kirk in the brig and have Spock join him on the bridge before Spock declines -- and gets thrown in the brig too. I mean, when the place when you've been looking for your whole life turns out to be possibly the real deal, you want someone to show it off to, and who better than your half-brother you haven't seen in years?)...it's pretty clear that while Kirk's opinion does matter, Spock's definitely matters more. And I think Spock definitely feels the same way, considering how he seems to go into shock when he sees Sybok on the hostage tape (probably for the first time in years), and how he can't really pull the trigger during the fight between Sybok and Kirk (two people that he very much cares for deeply. Although...I wonder if the Vulcan neck pinch works on other Vulcans? That could have been a way to take Sybok down without killing him). And his reaction after Sybok dies (the pretty interesting thing about Sybok's death is that he makes the decision after the deity impersonator basically threatens to kill Kirk, McCoy and Spock. Add in him earlier actually being horrified when said impersonator injures Kirk and Spock both, and...well, Spock's the pretty obvious one. Kirk, though...I'm not quite sure). Then there's a deleted scene (which would have made more sense if they'd cut the whole Spock's birth thing entirely and just put in that scene because, as I said in a footnote, I refuse to believe Sarek would treat his own son like that) where it's revealed that Spock wanted to go with his half-brother, but Sybok basically left him behind. If we go by that scene, maybe in a way, Sybok regretted leaving him behind and that's why he's so insistent that Spock go with him. I mean, hell, in the reunion scene, the first one he notices is Spock. The first one of the Enterprise he tries to convince to see his side of things is Spock.
So I guess regarding Kirk's possible character-shilling in this film, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other, actually.
About the character derailment -- while some of the characters had some really great moments (Sulu flying the shuttle in, which I think is one of Sulu's best moments and really gives one of many good reasons that he's fit to be a captain in Star Trek VI. It's that awesome. Then there's McCoy calling out the deity impersonator, Scotty breaking out the trio from their cell, and Chekov playing Acting Captain while Kirk and Spock try to rescue the hostages, and Spock basically encouraging General Korrd to stop feeling sorry for himself and do something about Klaa, not to mention shooting the impersonator who's going after Kirk. And Sybok gets a pretty good moment with his attempt to buy some time for Kirk and company), others...oy vey. There's Uhura, for example -- I actually feel awful for her (and I'm going to tip everyone off right then and there that later on, I'm going to be talking about stuff that may be triggering and disturbing, so you can skip past the "get a crush on Scotty" part to the part where I talk about Caithlin Dar). I mean, say what you will about Carol Marcus in Into Darkness, but at least she actually got to do something, stuff like standing up to her asshole of a dad (twice) and saving McCoy's life when his hand got jammed in the torpedo. Uhura, though...well, she doesn't really get to do much except do the fan dance (and yeah, I know it was to distract Sybok's men so Kirk and Spock could get in, but that's pretty much the most action she gets in the movie *****) and get a crush on Scotty that actually gets borderline boundary-invading when Scotty wakes up from bumping his head on the beam. I mean, that was a scene that actually got me uncomfortable for the both of them, especially since I got a rather uneasy feeling of, "Um, this is getting a bit creepy for both of them. I mean, Uhura's kind of invading his space when he clearly wants to tell her 'no', and it's pretty clear that she's really, really not herself right now which is why Scotty wants to tell her 'no', and I think the movie's trying to play it for laughs instead of it being creepy as fuck." So yeah...I just feel sorry for them both.
And from a female characterization viewpoint, Uhura definitely got the short straw. I mean, Caithlin Dar, the Romulan ambassador -- SF Debris was unnecessarily vicious towards her, but at least she got to do more stuff than Uhura did. For starters, making it to the bar on Nimbus III and managing to make her way through the crowd, managing to hold her own with more cynical ambassadors, and standing up to Sybok when the latter takes her, Talbot and Korrd captive without so much as flinching. Yeah, the Romulan ambassador who otherwise doesn't get to do much gets more stuff to do than Uhura did. I'm sorry, Uhura -- you deserved better. Scotty too, actually.
In terms of characterization stuff that worked -- well, I discussed some stuff above, but I'd be skipping over something important when it comes to McCoy and having to euthanize his dying father, which is actually very well-done. It's very underplayed, for starters -- it really allows McCoy's sorrow and his father's agony to speak for themselves, and both DeForrest Kelley and Bill Quinn (who played McCoy's father) did a wonderful job there. The aftermath especially where, McCoy reveals, just to make things worse, they found a cure for his father's illness not long after that ordeal (I mean, it's one of those horrors that nobody should have to go through. Nobody), was really effective. I mean...I don't have words that aren't "I'm sorry, Bones". And the scene in the forest where Kirk says that he's always known he'll die alone (well, before Generations kind of came along and I know I'm dreading that movie) was actually a pretty good bit of acting on Shatner's part (I mean, thing is, when Shatner's good, he's very good. See also the scene in Star Trek III where David's killed, which depressed me so much I had to take a break for the night). Understated, quiet, sad, and actually puts the whole El Capitan thing into some perspective. And even though the "Row Row Row Your Boat" scene was kind of ridiculous, it was kind of sweet seeing Spock, Kirk and Bones just kind of hanging out not as crewmembers, but friends. Also, the callback to Kirk's moment in the forest when Spock says that Kirk wasn't going to die because he wasn't alone. That was a genuinely lovely moment, honestly. And then there was Sybok himself. It's weird to say it, but I kind of feel as weird and sad as I did at the end of Wrath of Khan after Khan's death. I think for all the faults of The Final Frontier, he was an interesting character. He's not a good guy, but he's not evil either; it's sort of like he exists in his own little gradation on the grand Star Trek good-and-evil spectrum, and it helps that Laurence Luckinbill's really working at making him an interesting character. He definitely has a sinister aspect to him, but he also seems to be genuine in wanting to heal people and make them better. (Yeah, fine, those villains are kind of my weakness. Every time. I guess it's more interesting because by and large, people like thinking they're doing good) And there are nice little moments that are very subtle, but they work. I already mentioned the bit about "I don't control minds; I free them", but there's actually one that The Agony Booth actually pointed out in one of their rare moments of saying something good about the film in their recap; after Kirk basically pulls the stock "You're mad" response after learning about Sybok's grand plan, the latter actually has a moment of pausing, saying "Am I?" sort of like he's considering it (which is actually a pretty unusual response; the cliched response would be, say, taking it as a compliment), before regaining his...well, not confidence per se, but definitely faith in what he's doing. It's subtle, it's a small moment, but it's well-done.
Honestly? The Final Frontier was kind of a mixed bag more than anything else. It wasn't really the best of the original movies but it wasn't an abomination either (now, non-Star Trek-wise, if you want to see an abomination, check out the movie Camp Dread. That was awful). I think there's a good movie in there if you do some tweaking. Nothing you can really do about the SFX, I guess, but here are my suggestions:
-Cut out most of the attempts at humor. They were mostly trying to cash in on the success of The Voyage Home, but the thing about The Voyage Home was that a lot of the humor was organic and really flowed naturally. Stuff like Kirk and Spock's banter over Italian food and the "colorful metaphors" thing -- that flowed naturally. Most of the humor in The Final Frontier was mostly shoehorned -- I mean, there was no reason for Star Trek's first (though apparently not last) fart joke, or the pretty terrible (even by my standards) puns. And there's stuff like some of Spock's campfire conversation that doesn't really make sense. Yes, Vulcans are logical, but logical doesn't mean "awkward". (Anyone who's seen TOS, feel free to prove me wrong on this) He's not, say, Data or Odo, for goodness' sakes. On the other hand, some of the quieter moments of snark are organic, so...keep those. I think the best model for stuff like that is stuff like what I've seen of DS9 -- when they do the really good bits of humor, they really flow organically from the characters, situations, etc. and are genuinely clever. Don't make it completely humorless of course (I mean, The Last Airbender got a lot of complaints for that), but...don't go overly zany. (Yeah, I guess that's a good word for what was wrong here: things got too zany, and kind of veered between some dark and dramatic stuff and the...well, zany)
-Dial down the Kirk worship. Yes, Kirk is awesome. I like him. But the other characters definitely deserve a chance to shine and besides...let's be honest here, a character who's consistently right, a character who's basically regarded as perfect by the other characters and is portrayed as the shining beacon of purity that can do no wrong in-story while most of his crew (save McCoy, Spock and Scotty) are willing to betray him on a dime -- that sort of stuff isn't just insulting and conceited, but it's not good storytelling. It's pretty much death. Death on paper, at least.
-Give Uhura a better part. Maybe I'm being unfair about the fan dance and everything, but I think she could have gotten more to do than the fan dance and...that rather creepy scene with Scotty. And the thing is, the Uhura/Scotty romance could have worked; they have a pretty lovely moment at the beginning where they're just enjoying each other's company, they're comfortable around each other (which is a good component for a relationship whether it be familial, romantic, professional, or platonic), and it's generally pretty sweet even if...unusual. Then the filmmakers kind of screwed it up later on. Honestly, say what you will about how Sulu and the others are handled, but at least they got something genuinely cool to do, while Uhura...not so much.
-The McCoy scene was fantastic as it was; use Sybok's presence on the ship as a good opportunity for further character development and seeing what everyone's pain is. It's a good sort of opportunity for a bit of a TOS feel and a bit of psychological horror as well -- there's basically a renegade Vulcan who knows your worst experiences and is actively manipulating things to get to the center of the galaxy, all while an alien is playing him like an orchestra.
-Alternatively, it could be a race-against-the-clock sort of plot, with Sybok already having taken the ship he used to get here (depending on how he got to Nimbus III in the first place) and being on his way to the Great Barrier with the ambassadors, and Kirk and company have to get through the Great Barrier. Meanwhile, the story about Sybok's true identity can be put together by bits and pieces of what Spock's saying (Spock can kind of be like a guide to who exactly this guy is -- him recognizing Sybok from either some dialogue at the Nimbus III bar when they're interviewing witnesses or something Sybok left behind that tips Spock off that something funny's going on --as Kirk and co. put the pieces together of what exactly happened to the ambassadors) until the massive reveal of who Sybok is and what he wants. And the ultimate showdown can be on the planet, prior to the deity impersonator showing up. Kirk showing up only for the ambassadors to turn against him is actually a great moment in The Final Frontier and having that moment on the planet, along with Sybok taking the Enterprise crew prisoner, could definitely be a lead-up to a pretty awesome climax. (And probably find a way to work around the SFX problems)
-Do we need Klaa and Vixis? Honestly, I think the reason that they were there was to give Kirk an additional problem to deal with; while it's actually a pretty good "we're fucked" moment for the Enterprise with Klingons on Kirk's tail and Sybok working from the inside, I don't know if the story would have suffered from cutting them both out (even if it does provide a great moment of character development for General Korrd, going from the disgraced and drunken Klingon General to kind of getting his mojo back). I think either a straightforward chase/race against the clock part or a TOS psychological horror plot would have done just fine. I mean, the crew of the Enterprise having their traumas reexamined like that? That's chilling by itself. So's the matter of the antagonist not being a sadist, but genuinely thinking he's making people better. There's definitely a lot of potential to be had in that. (See the Operative in Serenity if you don't believe me)
-About the Great Barrier -- whichever route we take, make getting through the Great Barrier actually a struggle. Maybe it's there to tie into the whole theme of "the danger is really in your minds" (which Sybok actually brings up when Kirk raises some misgivings about going into the Great Barrier), but...like I said, death on paper. If it's the chase plot, have the Enterprise pretty badly battered when it reaches Sha'karee, which also ups the stakes -- have Scotty stay behind to make sure that the ship gets repaired, while Kirk and co. go to rescue the Ambassadors and take Sybok into custody. Things go pear-shaped, Kirk and co. get captured, Spock's whole family drama comes out, the crew gets their turn having their traumas reexamined, and the deity impersonator shows up and...you know the rest. And Scotty manages to bail Kirk out in time. If Sybok's on the ship, have him kind of be the guy who gets them through (the novelization had something about modifying the shields so the Enterprise gets through safely).
-Definitely keep the moment of the crew having some camaraderie in Yosemite prior to things going to hell. Having the friendshippy scenes is pretty important, as you have to care about the characters beforehand. Wrath of Khan did that very well. So did the reboot movies. They made you care about the characters, whether it be the matter of internal conflict and worry, camaraderie, things of that nature.
-Elaborate on the whole Nimbus III thing. I mean, I don't think that Starfleet would just neglect a colony like that after a drought, and even if it is in-character for Starfleet, I don't think it's something that should just pass through unexamined. In either plot, I'm thinking something along the lines of The Stand and Salem's Lot and how Stephen King handled the reasons that the bad guys' henchmen joined them. Trashcan Man's story is a good example. Sybok's definitely no Barlow or Flagg (personality-wise), but I can imagine that the reason that people like J'onn joined him wasn't just out of a desire to repay him for helping them, but also because they thought he could provide them the stability that they needed. People can do unthinkable things in the name of feeling safe, after all. It can be a conversation with anyone in Sybok's army -- for example, Uhura can talk to Caithlin Dar and ask her why she joined Sybok. It would also be a good way to touch on what exactly happened in that bar on Nimbus III. Or someone who recognizes Korrd can ask him how the hell he ended up there. Stuff like that. It would also be a good opportunity to flesh out members of the army some more.
In addition, flesh out the matter of what happened on Nimbus III with the project that went to hell. I mean, I just have a feeling that the whole "unscrupulous people deciding to fight among themselves" thing isn't the whole story. I mean, what about J'onn? Besides owning a gun when he shouldn't, what else did he do wrong?
-Revise the matter of Spock's pain. I mean, like I said again and again, Sarek would never, ever do that. I think that Spock having regrets about not following his half-brother is definitely sufficient enough. Or use something from TOS or the previous films, for that matter, and have Sybok's pain be leaving his half-brother behind.
Sybok's pain? Yeah, I know. I was thinking that it would be after he learns some more about what Spock's been up to since he left. And considering that Spock was the only one that he could actually listen to in that shuttle, and how hell-bent he was on Spock joining him, it makes sense he would show Spock that, and Spock alone, in a rare moment of openness. Probably keep it more one-sided, so we don't see what Spock's seeing exactly, but we get a good idea from the dialogue as to what's going on. And it could explain why he was so persistent about winning Spock over. Well, one of many reasons, actually -- having some guilt left over from leaving Spock behind, and wanting to basically show off what he's found to his half-brother. (I mean, even Vader needed someone to show off the galaxy to)
Yeah, it's a silly idea, but that's just a thought...
-Have a different pain for Uhura. It could actually be a good opportunity to learn some more about her, actually. McCoy's pain did a great job of shining a new light on the good doctor, so Uhura could definitely do the same. Go into Chekov's as well -- I mean, kidding aside, I can imagine he definitely has some residual trauma left over from, for example, what Khan did to him. You don't have to explore everyone down to the last red shirt on the ship, but digging deeper isn't a bad idea.
-While we're on the subject, definitely have things flow more organically for Uhura and Scotty. It being a case of them clearly having feelings for the other but being unable to really vocalize them.
-Have the crew...react differently to Sybok. Because I can't picture Sulu, Uhura, etc. deciding to turn on a dime. They don't exactly have that same desire for safety that, say, J'onn had. Have it be definitely more like a Storm of the Century vibe if the antagonist's shtick was less-using-your-worst-secrets-to-intimidate-you and more-using-your-worst-memories-to-win-you-over. Basically, a sort of psychological/verbal battle, complete with, whatever plot you choose, being in the same room with this guy. Besides...that's definitely less death-on-paper-y.
-Give a bit more of an idea (but not too much) of what exactly that thing Sybok woke up in the Great Barrier was.
-Add a nod to Kirk's biological brother in the celebration scene. As nice as him acknowledging Spock as a brother was, I think it would be pretty nice to mention the biological brother who actually died.
Yeah, maybe this is all a bit self-indulgent, maybe some of my points won't work, but that's my take on it, at least. It's not a bad movie; there's definitely a good movie in there somewhere if you do some rewrites on certain things.
* Yeah, I had to make that reference. Basically, for those who haven't watched Dogma -- and you should go see it because it's awesome -- before the events of the film, two fallen angels were exiled to Wisconsin for basically drunk and disorderly behavior. Considering Sybok's on Nimbus III after being exiled for, according to the novelization, something else that's pretty serious, I'd say Nimbus III is definitely his Wisconsin. (And now I'm picturing an alternative response of Spock when he shows up: "Oh, Sybok. Was Nimbus III really that bad?")
** If you really think about it, Sybok's good at what he does. It's actually kind of creepy, and could have a wonderful potential for psychological horror -- and character development! You get some good stuff for Bones, but you don't really see the others, actually, and Spock's doesn't really make sense because Sarek wouldn't be that cruel to his newborn son -- a man on your ship who knows your deep-seated traumas and uses them to get you to see his side of things. Back when I was a teenager, I wondered, "Oh come on, so he cures people's pain, what's so evil and diabolical about that", but thinking on it more, there is actually something kind of uncanny about it -- there's a lot of things that could go wrong, for starters, and having to relive something that you really prefer to not think about, accidentally uncovering a repressed memory, the likelihood of accidentally retraumatizing the client...and then there's the most basic part of it, that feeling of vulnerability and nudity. I can imagine it's probably like that for some people. Me, it's like when I open my mouth sometimes, my autobiography comes pouring out, but some people just have stuff they prefer to keep to themselves. Of course, there's a point where Sybok actually says to Chekov "The choice must be yours", but the way that he kind of executes his, um, work on the others kind of seems ambiguous on the people-agreeing-to-it front (J'onn, the farmer that Sybok recruits in the opening, is one example. Then there's the ambassadors, McCoy, etc). But yeah, it could make for some pretty excellent psychological horror -- not having people like Sulu turn on Kirk, but definitely getting a glimpse into our characters' heads and how they work and how they cope with what's going on on the ship. The fact that Sybok is pretty much a Well-Intentioned Extremist to the hilt definitely adds a new dimension to it as well, as he seems to genuinely believe that he's actually making them better. Psychological horror + character development + no character derailment + well-intentioned extremist? I can definitely get on board with that.
*** Then again, I guess I could also chalk that up to Sybok's more...affable persona. Thing about him is that throughout the film, even though he has moments of flashing anger (he's not exactly happy, for example, that Kirk and Spock basically accidentally started a fight in Paradise City and yells at Chekov for it) and aggravation (stuff like nearly shooting Kirk seems to be brought on by his impatience to actually meet up with the deity-impersonator), he's generally pretty pleasant towards the people he's kept as his prisoners. Towards the people he, well, recruits for lack of a better word, he's pretty charming (J'onn, for instance). He can have a pretty good sense of humor (which is probably near-non-existent in the usually stoic Vulcans).
**** That and SFDebris was unnecessarily insulting and sexist towards the Romulan ambassador, Caithlin Dar, and the actress playing her (I mean, if you didn't like the lines she was given, that was the script's fault, not the actress'), when he was doing the review (it's one thing to complain about a poorly written character, but saying that the actress got the role because of basically Casting Couch is inappropriate and unnecessary and could have been cut out of the review without it being a particularly great loss. So could the comment about tapping her head being like testing the ripeness of a melon -- referring to...well, it's a rather oblique comment to he thinks she's stupid. And yeah, maybe I'm being a bit overly sensitive here -- what can I say? Being oversensitive is one of my many talents -- but he really wouldn't make a comment like that about a male character, would he?). I mean, at the risk of a pun, what the hell was up with that? The review was decent, but those potshots actually did make me feel kind of uncomfortable. I mean, people bitch about the Nostalgia Critic nowadays, and people were saying "oh, SF Debris did those Star Trek reviews better", but at least the Critic didn't include an unnecessary potshot like that at the character (and note that nobody basically came out and said, "Hey, that was inappropriate", so...yeah). Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
***** And like Linkara, I'm not going to get Squicked over that. Mostly, I'm just wishing Uhura had more stuff to do besides the fan dance and her, um, crush on Scotty. Seriously, Uhura's a great character, old version and new version, and she deserves a lot better than that.
And that's my take on The Final Frontier. Should get to Undiscovered Country soon enough. And Beyond -- mostly have to schedule a good date to see it, but I definitely expect to enjoy it when I see it.
How was it? Well, it was a pretty interesting experience. I have a lot to talk about. Also, a warning beforehand, besides discussing spoilers, I may also be touching on some content that's rather triggering/disturbing later on. So, be careful.
First things first, I pretty much know everything there is to know about the production disasters of the film. The production disasters regarding Star Trek The Motion Picture I actually had to learn about from
4thofeleven (also, thank you, 4thofeleven), but the production disasters and the flaws of The Final Frontier...well, let's say it's had one of the most infamous production disasters since, say, Halloween 6: The Curse of Michael Myers (complete with Executive Meddling!). The Nostalgia Critic's given his five cents, so has SF Debris, and Linkara had some comments about the movie when he was reviewing the comic (which is actually a decent review). I would otherwise sort of be repeating everything that's already been said, so I might as well give my own perspectives on things people have talked about.First off, the effects. A lot of people have mocked the effects, and to be fair, some of them...really could use a little work. There's the Great Barrier (and I know that the Critic basically mocked the fuck out of it, even comparing it to the Ring of Fire from Finding Nemo, but the novelization actually has a good explanation for it -- Sybok kind of tells Scotty to modify the shields so they can get through without getting too battered, apparently. That's what I read, at least. I think it would have been a good idea to include in the film, just to get a plothole removed), which...I don't know. It looks like it could be a lot better. It kind of looks like someone spilled their watercolors all over the galaxy:
And then there's this -- basically when they arrive on Shakaree (the planet that the antagonist, Sybok's, looking for. You're probably wondering why a Vulcan would go looking for God, but as you see throughout the movie, Sybok's not your ordinary Vulcan. He's basically Counselor Troi if she were genderflipped and had a talent for digging up your worst memories and kind of using them as a motivator for you joining him. Hell, I actually wondered if his shtick sort of had a bit of Betazed in him, but a deleted line from the original script about it being an old Vulcan technique that the Vulcans eventually decided to not touch with a ten-foot pole...that shot that down pretty quick. My mind goes to weird places, I guess), it's supposed to be a sort of galactic paradise, but while it's pretty, it kind of looks like someone overused the purple filter a bit:
And the original stuff involving the rock monster...well...
Yeah, let's say it's a case of "great concept, needs better execution". I mean, the rock monster looks like it's wearing a cat smile. Sort of like this:
That being said, while the effects are pretty mediocre at best (they're not the worst I've seen; let's say that "honor" goes to a movie I watched once, a 2003 horror film called Fear of the Dark where the monsters looked like a live-action version of the mayor from The Nightmare Before Christmas. And I guess that proves I haven't watched enough bad movies), there are actually moments where the cinematography is absolutely gorgeous. There's the opening scene on Nimbus III, for example, which is actually beautifully shot.
(Sorry, that was the best cap I could actually get of that scene. Let's say finding caps of Nimbus III was a pain to do)
And then there's the introductory shot of our main antagonist, Sybok, which is also really well-shot.
Then the dismounting:
That's a sort of opening shot that I actually like, the matter of the antagonist sort of coming out of the dust to confront the person whose life has...really been shot to hell. Also, one thing I noticed about Sybok -- the actor who plays him, Laurence Luckinbill actually has the right voice for the guy. He has a pretty interesting performance, I think -- it can kind of veer between being very soft-voiced and understated and kind of...well, if anyone's seen the Broadway adaptation of Beauty and the Beast (or own the soundtrack, as I do), the way Sybok sounds on stuff like "I thought weapons were forbidden on this planet" actually sounds a bit like...how the Beast sounds in that adaptation. Both actually work, believe it or not. There's a scene later in the film when he's confronting Kirk, McCoy and Spock, trying to sort of make them see his side of things, and Kirk accuses him of mind-controlling the crew, and Sybok has an interesting reaction to this: "I don't control minds. I free them." All the while actually sounding genuinely dismayed by Kirk's comment. I guess he is sincere about wanting to help those under his, for lack of a better word, tutelage. The way he executes it is pretty creepy when you reexamine it, but it's clear that he's not doing this for the sake of sadism, but because he believes he's actually trying to help. Even in the original script, in contrast to Talbot (one of the ambassadors) calling the settlers basically savages turning on one another, it mentions that most of the people in Sybok's army are beings, basically, that were dealt a bad hand and the Federation (after the drought happened and Nimbus III failed) couldn't give a rat's ass about them. And to be honest? I believe that. Maybe there were some psychopaths in there, but J'onn the farmer didn't do anything (mentioned onscreen) particularly terrible. Well, he broke the law by owning a gun, but from his point of view, he was defending himself against someone he thought was a threat. Otherwise, he didn't seem like a really awful person (the novelization even kind of mentions that he recently lost and was grieving over his wife in addition to his farm being shot to hell), and I guess it proves once again, fuck the Just World Fallacy. (I just feel bad for J'onn. No wonder he basically glommed onto Sybok first chance he got; Sybok was probably the only person to give a shit about him. And if the rest of the situation on Nimbus III is anything like J'onn's...well, that's not right. Or fair. And to hell with the Prime Directive, honestly, or there's-no-hope-for-these-people -- everyone deserves help)
Also, on a sidenote, one thing I noticed about Sybok (and maybe this is me being in fanfiction for way, way too long) was that when he's around J'onn, he kind of...well, I guess the best way to put it is, he kind of gets a bit handsy with the farmer:
And it's not just the farmer; when he's doing his work for McCoy, he kind of gets handsy with him as well:
Put it this way, if he were doing this with say, Caithlin Dar or Uhura, people would have immediately picked up on it. And yeah, maybe it's just the matter of the mind meld and how it works, but I don't think they really got that close.
Back on topic, there's the matter of the image of Sybok just kind of coming out of the dust.
Funny thing is when I first saw the Nostalgia Critic's review, I actually couldn't shake the idea of him looking a bit like Kevin Flynn from Tron Legacy. I'm serious:
I'm a little creeped out now. They don't look entirely alike, but it's close enough.
Then there's the hood reveal, which is a pretty good shot:
If I have a bit of a beef with this, it's that Laurence Luckinbill (who plays Sybok) doesn't look much like Leonard Nimoy. Maybe a bit with the eyebrows and such, but otherwise...not so much. (Yeah, I know, I should probably get some perspective...)
There's also the scene of Kirk climbing up El Capitan, which...yeah, it drags really long (I mean, it's been a while since I watched Star Trek: The Motion Picture, but I don't think that it lasted that long in certain shots), but it's beautifully shot:
So when the cinematography works, it really does honest-to-God work. The rest of it is...all right, I suppose. Best I can say about the rest of it and the effects is that at best, they're mediocre.
On a sidenote, according to a clip that Linkara had in his review of the comic adaptation, William Shatner basically said that Kirk's climb up El Capitan was a metaphor for him, um (and this is going to likely break somebody's brain if I haven't already done so, and I'm very very sorry)...having intercourse with it. I'm Not Making This Up.
Yeah...
(Yeah, not Star Trek V related, but it does kind of sum up my reaction)
About the humor...yeah, I admit it, I groaned at the puns, and I'm not usually a person who dislikes puns. (I...kind of see them too much) But there were some moments that were actually pretty good. I thought that the Chekov and Sulu lost-in-a-blizzard scene was ridiculous, but Walter Koenig's delivery of the line, "Sulu, look, the sun's come out! It's a miracle!" was amazing, sort of like Chekov's wondering "Why is my life like this?" (I mean, seriously, I think that's why he ended up turning to Sybok's side -- he was tired of basically being the series' Chew Toy. When you're beaten up and mind-controlled by a vengeful warlord who has an axe to grind with your captain, hit your head running from the cops in San Francisco, and have a pretty embarrassing moment of getting lost in the woods with Sulu, not to mention some other stuff that I probably don't remember/don't know about, you kind of have to hit your why-does-this-bullshit-happen-to-me limit at some point) Also during the mountain climbing scene when Spock says "Doctor McCoy isn't in the best of moods" (something about Leonard Nimoy's delivery is wonderful. And on another note, R.I.P., Nimoy. You were awesome, man) and it cuts to poor McCoy nearly having a heart attack watching Kirk climb that thing. And grumbling. A lot. And though the new Enterprise not working was kind of overkill at times, Scotty grumbling about the ship being put together by monkeys was pretty chuckle-worthy. And the sheer amount of you've-got-to-be-kidding-me in Kirk's voice when he says to Sybok "You staged this to get your hands on my
ship?" Otherwise, I'd say some of the humor kind of fell flat.
(On a sidenote, what happened to Sybok's ship? I mean, did it meet the same fate that Poe Dameron's ship met on Jakku, or was the deity-impersonator just really, really picky about what kind of ship he wanted? Or when he was exiled, was he just dropped off like Rey was on Jakku -- a ship just dropped him off, flew away, and left him on what was sort of like Star Trek's version of the Viewaskewniverse's version of Wisconsin in Dogma -- and what was I thinking with that triple crossover? * Yeah, I know you can say "Because plot holes", but I really am curious...)
In terms of the film being a love letter to Kirk -- that's basically one of the accusations leveled at it, that it's basically a look-how-awesome-Kirk-is fest -- I can actually see that. I mean, Kirk's pretty much the one between him, Bones and Spock to call bullshit on what Sybok's doing and say that pain can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand, pain makes you who you are, yadda yadda et cetera et cetera (and even putting that aside, there was something about that quote that rubbed me the wrong way. I don't know why, but it did), Klaa wants to defeat him in battle to gain glory and praises Kirk for something that was clearly Sulu's (it says that much in the original script about how the Klingons are admiring Kirk for his cleverness never mind that it was Sulu who basically pulled off the whole Landing Plan B thing), Bob (the guy who ends up sending the Enterprise on the rescue mission that ultimately gets spectacularly derailed) pretty much says that Kirk is the only captain they can send on that rescue mission, the original plan for The Final Frontier was everyone, and I mean everyone, turning against Kirk, including Spock and McCoy, before Leonard Nimoy and DeForrest Kelley basically said, "Nuh uh, not doing it." And then there's Sybok himself. While he is pretty much the only one in the film who really can stand up to Kirk and pose as a threat against him (Kirk's attempt at rescuing the hostages goes pear-shaped and he, McCoy and Spock end up getting captured by Sybok and company, a lot of the ship gets turned to Sybok's side of things after he manages to tap into their past traumas and he ultimately ends up taking over the ship **), he also kind of occasionally falls into the Kirk-worship himself. For example, the "I see! Very clever, Captain" after the reveal of Kirk being the actual Captain (though I'd say Chekov does a decent job as the Captain decoy considering the circumstances. I'd say that it was stuff that entirely was not Chekov's fault that caused his cover to get blown) *** and he seems kind of...obsessed with trying to get Kirk's approval (he even says it himself. "Captain Kirk, I so much want your understanding. I want your respect. Are you afraid to hear me out?" Link here: http://www.actorama.com/ms/930/David-Loughery/Star-Trek-V:-The-Final-Frontier.). And Kirk's the one who asks "What does God need with a starship?" The others definitely get their moments, but Kirk kind of seems to get the good ones. (And Uhura...well, I'll get to her in a bit) And there seems to be a bit of a Kirk-is-the-coolest-thing-ever thing in the film.
That being said, there's actually a part in this that I think is probably too vital for a footnote and definitely contradicts what I said above at least a little (then again, I am kind of more examining the argument some more): of all the people on the Enterprise that Sybok wants approval from, Spock actually seems to outrank Kirk. SF Debris actually said in his review of Star Trek V that they missed an opportunity in the movie, why didn't Sybok express more interest in the fact that Spock basically underwent a Lazarus in Search for Spock, etc., but honestly? I don't think they needed that. **** I think the fact that they're half-brothers is definitely justification enough. Maybe I just have too much of a weakness for the Rameses-and-Moses sort of story for my own good, but I think the fact that Sybok very likely loved his half-brother dearly was definitely enough to account for pretty much dropping everything and running towards Spock:
Then there's everything else. There's the original script where it says explicitly that Spock's really the only one he trusts on the shuttle (even above Korrd, who's a Klingon and one of his recruits) when he's getting more than a bit anxious about his trip to Sha'karee getting delayed, there's his repeated attempts to get Spock to join him (hell, second time he does it, he's too happy to throw McCoy and Kirk in the brig and have Spock join him on the bridge before Spock declines -- and gets thrown in the brig too. I mean, when the place when you've been looking for your whole life turns out to be possibly the real deal, you want someone to show it off to, and who better than your half-brother you haven't seen in years?)...it's pretty clear that while Kirk's opinion does matter, Spock's definitely matters more. And I think Spock definitely feels the same way, considering how he seems to go into shock when he sees Sybok on the hostage tape (probably for the first time in years), and how he can't really pull the trigger during the fight between Sybok and Kirk (two people that he very much cares for deeply. Although...I wonder if the Vulcan neck pinch works on other Vulcans? That could have been a way to take Sybok down without killing him). And his reaction after Sybok dies (the pretty interesting thing about Sybok's death is that he makes the decision after the deity impersonator basically threatens to kill Kirk, McCoy and Spock. Add in him earlier actually being horrified when said impersonator injures Kirk and Spock both, and...well, Spock's the pretty obvious one. Kirk, though...I'm not quite sure). Then there's a deleted scene (which would have made more sense if they'd cut the whole Spock's birth thing entirely and just put in that scene because, as I said in a footnote, I refuse to believe Sarek would treat his own son like that) where it's revealed that Spock wanted to go with his half-brother, but Sybok basically left him behind. If we go by that scene, maybe in a way, Sybok regretted leaving him behind and that's why he's so insistent that Spock go with him. I mean, hell, in the reunion scene, the first one he notices is Spock. The first one of the Enterprise he tries to convince to see his side of things is Spock.
So I guess regarding Kirk's possible character-shilling in this film, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other, actually.
About the character derailment -- while some of the characters had some really great moments (Sulu flying the shuttle in, which I think is one of Sulu's best moments and really gives one of many good reasons that he's fit to be a captain in Star Trek VI. It's that awesome. Then there's McCoy calling out the deity impersonator, Scotty breaking out the trio from their cell, and Chekov playing Acting Captain while Kirk and Spock try to rescue the hostages, and Spock basically encouraging General Korrd to stop feeling sorry for himself and do something about Klaa, not to mention shooting the impersonator who's going after Kirk. And Sybok gets a pretty good moment with his attempt to buy some time for Kirk and company), others...oy vey. There's Uhura, for example -- I actually feel awful for her (and I'm going to tip everyone off right then and there that later on, I'm going to be talking about stuff that may be triggering and disturbing, so you can skip past the "get a crush on Scotty" part to the part where I talk about Caithlin Dar). I mean, say what you will about Carol Marcus in Into Darkness, but at least she actually got to do something, stuff like standing up to her asshole of a dad (twice) and saving McCoy's life when his hand got jammed in the torpedo. Uhura, though...well, she doesn't really get to do much except do the fan dance (and yeah, I know it was to distract Sybok's men so Kirk and Spock could get in, but that's pretty much the most action she gets in the movie *****) and get a crush on Scotty that actually gets borderline boundary-invading when Scotty wakes up from bumping his head on the beam. I mean, that was a scene that actually got me uncomfortable for the both of them, especially since I got a rather uneasy feeling of, "Um, this is getting a bit creepy for both of them. I mean, Uhura's kind of invading his space when he clearly wants to tell her 'no', and it's pretty clear that she's really, really not herself right now which is why Scotty wants to tell her 'no', and I think the movie's trying to play it for laughs instead of it being creepy as fuck." So yeah...I just feel sorry for them both.
And from a female characterization viewpoint, Uhura definitely got the short straw. I mean, Caithlin Dar, the Romulan ambassador -- SF Debris was unnecessarily vicious towards her, but at least she got to do more stuff than Uhura did. For starters, making it to the bar on Nimbus III and managing to make her way through the crowd, managing to hold her own with more cynical ambassadors, and standing up to Sybok when the latter takes her, Talbot and Korrd captive without so much as flinching. Yeah, the Romulan ambassador who otherwise doesn't get to do much gets more stuff to do than Uhura did. I'm sorry, Uhura -- you deserved better. Scotty too, actually.
In terms of characterization stuff that worked -- well, I discussed some stuff above, but I'd be skipping over something important when it comes to McCoy and having to euthanize his dying father, which is actually very well-done. It's very underplayed, for starters -- it really allows McCoy's sorrow and his father's agony to speak for themselves, and both DeForrest Kelley and Bill Quinn (who played McCoy's father) did a wonderful job there. The aftermath especially where, McCoy reveals, just to make things worse, they found a cure for his father's illness not long after that ordeal (I mean, it's one of those horrors that nobody should have to go through. Nobody), was really effective. I mean...I don't have words that aren't "I'm sorry, Bones". And the scene in the forest where Kirk says that he's always known he'll die alone (well, before Generations kind of came along and I know I'm dreading that movie) was actually a pretty good bit of acting on Shatner's part (I mean, thing is, when Shatner's good, he's very good. See also the scene in Star Trek III where David's killed, which depressed me so much I had to take a break for the night). Understated, quiet, sad, and actually puts the whole El Capitan thing into some perspective. And even though the "Row Row Row Your Boat" scene was kind of ridiculous, it was kind of sweet seeing Spock, Kirk and Bones just kind of hanging out not as crewmembers, but friends. Also, the callback to Kirk's moment in the forest when Spock says that Kirk wasn't going to die because he wasn't alone. That was a genuinely lovely moment, honestly. And then there was Sybok himself. It's weird to say it, but I kind of feel as weird and sad as I did at the end of Wrath of Khan after Khan's death. I think for all the faults of The Final Frontier, he was an interesting character. He's not a good guy, but he's not evil either; it's sort of like he exists in his own little gradation on the grand Star Trek good-and-evil spectrum, and it helps that Laurence Luckinbill's really working at making him an interesting character. He definitely has a sinister aspect to him, but he also seems to be genuine in wanting to heal people and make them better. (Yeah, fine, those villains are kind of my weakness. Every time. I guess it's more interesting because by and large, people like thinking they're doing good) And there are nice little moments that are very subtle, but they work. I already mentioned the bit about "I don't control minds; I free them", but there's actually one that The Agony Booth actually pointed out in one of their rare moments of saying something good about the film in their recap; after Kirk basically pulls the stock "You're mad" response after learning about Sybok's grand plan, the latter actually has a moment of pausing, saying "Am I?" sort of like he's considering it (which is actually a pretty unusual response; the cliched response would be, say, taking it as a compliment), before regaining his...well, not confidence per se, but definitely faith in what he's doing. It's subtle, it's a small moment, but it's well-done.
Honestly? The Final Frontier was kind of a mixed bag more than anything else. It wasn't really the best of the original movies but it wasn't an abomination either (now, non-Star Trek-wise, if you want to see an abomination, check out the movie Camp Dread. That was awful). I think there's a good movie in there if you do some tweaking. Nothing you can really do about the SFX, I guess, but here are my suggestions:
-Cut out most of the attempts at humor. They were mostly trying to cash in on the success of The Voyage Home, but the thing about The Voyage Home was that a lot of the humor was organic and really flowed naturally. Stuff like Kirk and Spock's banter over Italian food and the "colorful metaphors" thing -- that flowed naturally. Most of the humor in The Final Frontier was mostly shoehorned -- I mean, there was no reason for Star Trek's first (though apparently not last) fart joke, or the pretty terrible (even by my standards) puns. And there's stuff like some of Spock's campfire conversation that doesn't really make sense. Yes, Vulcans are logical, but logical doesn't mean "awkward". (Anyone who's seen TOS, feel free to prove me wrong on this) He's not, say, Data or Odo, for goodness' sakes. On the other hand, some of the quieter moments of snark are organic, so...keep those. I think the best model for stuff like that is stuff like what I've seen of DS9 -- when they do the really good bits of humor, they really flow organically from the characters, situations, etc. and are genuinely clever. Don't make it completely humorless of course (I mean, The Last Airbender got a lot of complaints for that), but...don't go overly zany. (Yeah, I guess that's a good word for what was wrong here: things got too zany, and kind of veered between some dark and dramatic stuff and the...well, zany)
-Dial down the Kirk worship. Yes, Kirk is awesome. I like him. But the other characters definitely deserve a chance to shine and besides...let's be honest here, a character who's consistently right, a character who's basically regarded as perfect by the other characters and is portrayed as the shining beacon of purity that can do no wrong in-story while most of his crew (save McCoy, Spock and Scotty) are willing to betray him on a dime -- that sort of stuff isn't just insulting and conceited, but it's not good storytelling. It's pretty much death. Death on paper, at least.
-Give Uhura a better part. Maybe I'm being unfair about the fan dance and everything, but I think she could have gotten more to do than the fan dance and...that rather creepy scene with Scotty. And the thing is, the Uhura/Scotty romance could have worked; they have a pretty lovely moment at the beginning where they're just enjoying each other's company, they're comfortable around each other (which is a good component for a relationship whether it be familial, romantic, professional, or platonic), and it's generally pretty sweet even if...unusual. Then the filmmakers kind of screwed it up later on. Honestly, say what you will about how Sulu and the others are handled, but at least they got something genuinely cool to do, while Uhura...not so much.
-The McCoy scene was fantastic as it was; use Sybok's presence on the ship as a good opportunity for further character development and seeing what everyone's pain is. It's a good sort of opportunity for a bit of a TOS feel and a bit of psychological horror as well -- there's basically a renegade Vulcan who knows your worst experiences and is actively manipulating things to get to the center of the galaxy, all while an alien is playing him like an orchestra.
-Alternatively, it could be a race-against-the-clock sort of plot, with Sybok already having taken the ship he used to get here (depending on how he got to Nimbus III in the first place) and being on his way to the Great Barrier with the ambassadors, and Kirk and company have to get through the Great Barrier. Meanwhile, the story about Sybok's true identity can be put together by bits and pieces of what Spock's saying (Spock can kind of be like a guide to who exactly this guy is -- him recognizing Sybok from either some dialogue at the Nimbus III bar when they're interviewing witnesses or something Sybok left behind that tips Spock off that something funny's going on --as Kirk and co. put the pieces together of what exactly happened to the ambassadors) until the massive reveal of who Sybok is and what he wants. And the ultimate showdown can be on the planet, prior to the deity impersonator showing up. Kirk showing up only for the ambassadors to turn against him is actually a great moment in The Final Frontier and having that moment on the planet, along with Sybok taking the Enterprise crew prisoner, could definitely be a lead-up to a pretty awesome climax. (And probably find a way to work around the SFX problems)
-Do we need Klaa and Vixis? Honestly, I think the reason that they were there was to give Kirk an additional problem to deal with; while it's actually a pretty good "we're fucked" moment for the Enterprise with Klingons on Kirk's tail and Sybok working from the inside, I don't know if the story would have suffered from cutting them both out (even if it does provide a great moment of character development for General Korrd, going from the disgraced and drunken Klingon General to kind of getting his mojo back). I think either a straightforward chase/race against the clock part or a TOS psychological horror plot would have done just fine. I mean, the crew of the Enterprise having their traumas reexamined like that? That's chilling by itself. So's the matter of the antagonist not being a sadist, but genuinely thinking he's making people better. There's definitely a lot of potential to be had in that. (See the Operative in Serenity if you don't believe me)
-About the Great Barrier -- whichever route we take, make getting through the Great Barrier actually a struggle. Maybe it's there to tie into the whole theme of "the danger is really in your minds" (which Sybok actually brings up when Kirk raises some misgivings about going into the Great Barrier), but...like I said, death on paper. If it's the chase plot, have the Enterprise pretty badly battered when it reaches Sha'karee, which also ups the stakes -- have Scotty stay behind to make sure that the ship gets repaired, while Kirk and co. go to rescue the Ambassadors and take Sybok into custody. Things go pear-shaped, Kirk and co. get captured, Spock's whole family drama comes out, the crew gets their turn having their traumas reexamined, and the deity impersonator shows up and...you know the rest. And Scotty manages to bail Kirk out in time. If Sybok's on the ship, have him kind of be the guy who gets them through (the novelization had something about modifying the shields so the Enterprise gets through safely).
-Definitely keep the moment of the crew having some camaraderie in Yosemite prior to things going to hell. Having the friendshippy scenes is pretty important, as you have to care about the characters beforehand. Wrath of Khan did that very well. So did the reboot movies. They made you care about the characters, whether it be the matter of internal conflict and worry, camaraderie, things of that nature.
-Elaborate on the whole Nimbus III thing. I mean, I don't think that Starfleet would just neglect a colony like that after a drought, and even if it is in-character for Starfleet, I don't think it's something that should just pass through unexamined. In either plot, I'm thinking something along the lines of The Stand and Salem's Lot and how Stephen King handled the reasons that the bad guys' henchmen joined them. Trashcan Man's story is a good example. Sybok's definitely no Barlow or Flagg (personality-wise), but I can imagine that the reason that people like J'onn joined him wasn't just out of a desire to repay him for helping them, but also because they thought he could provide them the stability that they needed. People can do unthinkable things in the name of feeling safe, after all. It can be a conversation with anyone in Sybok's army -- for example, Uhura can talk to Caithlin Dar and ask her why she joined Sybok. It would also be a good way to touch on what exactly happened in that bar on Nimbus III. Or someone who recognizes Korrd can ask him how the hell he ended up there. Stuff like that. It would also be a good opportunity to flesh out members of the army some more.
In addition, flesh out the matter of what happened on Nimbus III with the project that went to hell. I mean, I just have a feeling that the whole "unscrupulous people deciding to fight among themselves" thing isn't the whole story. I mean, what about J'onn? Besides owning a gun when he shouldn't, what else did he do wrong?
-Revise the matter of Spock's pain. I mean, like I said again and again, Sarek would never, ever do that. I think that Spock having regrets about not following his half-brother is definitely sufficient enough. Or use something from TOS or the previous films, for that matter, and have Sybok's pain be leaving his half-brother behind.
Sybok's pain? Yeah, I know. I was thinking that it would be after he learns some more about what Spock's been up to since he left. And considering that Spock was the only one that he could actually listen to in that shuttle, and how hell-bent he was on Spock joining him, it makes sense he would show Spock that, and Spock alone, in a rare moment of openness. Probably keep it more one-sided, so we don't see what Spock's seeing exactly, but we get a good idea from the dialogue as to what's going on. And it could explain why he was so persistent about winning Spock over. Well, one of many reasons, actually -- having some guilt left over from leaving Spock behind, and wanting to basically show off what he's found to his half-brother. (I mean, even Vader needed someone to show off the galaxy to)
Yeah, it's a silly idea, but that's just a thought...
-Have a different pain for Uhura. It could actually be a good opportunity to learn some more about her, actually. McCoy's pain did a great job of shining a new light on the good doctor, so Uhura could definitely do the same. Go into Chekov's as well -- I mean, kidding aside, I can imagine he definitely has some residual trauma left over from, for example, what Khan did to him. You don't have to explore everyone down to the last red shirt on the ship, but digging deeper isn't a bad idea.
-While we're on the subject, definitely have things flow more organically for Uhura and Scotty. It being a case of them clearly having feelings for the other but being unable to really vocalize them.
-Have the crew...react differently to Sybok. Because I can't picture Sulu, Uhura, etc. deciding to turn on a dime. They don't exactly have that same desire for safety that, say, J'onn had. Have it be definitely more like a Storm of the Century vibe if the antagonist's shtick was less-using-your-worst-secrets-to-intimidate-you and more-using-your-worst-memories-to-win-you-over. Basically, a sort of psychological/verbal battle, complete with, whatever plot you choose, being in the same room with this guy. Besides...that's definitely less death-on-paper-y.
-Give a bit more of an idea (but not too much) of what exactly that thing Sybok woke up in the Great Barrier was.
-Add a nod to Kirk's biological brother in the celebration scene. As nice as him acknowledging Spock as a brother was, I think it would be pretty nice to mention the biological brother who actually died.
Yeah, maybe this is all a bit self-indulgent, maybe some of my points won't work, but that's my take on it, at least. It's not a bad movie; there's definitely a good movie in there somewhere if you do some rewrites on certain things.
* Yeah, I had to make that reference. Basically, for those who haven't watched Dogma -- and you should go see it because it's awesome -- before the events of the film, two fallen angels were exiled to Wisconsin for basically drunk and disorderly behavior. Considering Sybok's on Nimbus III after being exiled for, according to the novelization, something else that's pretty serious, I'd say Nimbus III is definitely his Wisconsin. (And now I'm picturing an alternative response of Spock when he shows up: "Oh, Sybok. Was Nimbus III really that bad?")
** If you really think about it, Sybok's good at what he does. It's actually kind of creepy, and could have a wonderful potential for psychological horror -- and character development! You get some good stuff for Bones, but you don't really see the others, actually, and Spock's doesn't really make sense because Sarek wouldn't be that cruel to his newborn son -- a man on your ship who knows your deep-seated traumas and uses them to get you to see his side of things. Back when I was a teenager, I wondered, "Oh come on, so he cures people's pain, what's so evil and diabolical about that", but thinking on it more, there is actually something kind of uncanny about it -- there's a lot of things that could go wrong, for starters, and having to relive something that you really prefer to not think about, accidentally uncovering a repressed memory, the likelihood of accidentally retraumatizing the client...and then there's the most basic part of it, that feeling of vulnerability and nudity. I can imagine it's probably like that for some people. Me, it's like when I open my mouth sometimes, my autobiography comes pouring out, but some people just have stuff they prefer to keep to themselves. Of course, there's a point where Sybok actually says to Chekov "The choice must be yours", but the way that he kind of executes his, um, work on the others kind of seems ambiguous on the people-agreeing-to-it front (J'onn, the farmer that Sybok recruits in the opening, is one example. Then there's the ambassadors, McCoy, etc). But yeah, it could make for some pretty excellent psychological horror -- not having people like Sulu turn on Kirk, but definitely getting a glimpse into our characters' heads and how they work and how they cope with what's going on on the ship. The fact that Sybok is pretty much a Well-Intentioned Extremist to the hilt definitely adds a new dimension to it as well, as he seems to genuinely believe that he's actually making them better. Psychological horror + character development + no character derailment + well-intentioned extremist? I can definitely get on board with that.
*** Then again, I guess I could also chalk that up to Sybok's more...affable persona. Thing about him is that throughout the film, even though he has moments of flashing anger (he's not exactly happy, for example, that Kirk and Spock basically accidentally started a fight in Paradise City and yells at Chekov for it) and aggravation (stuff like nearly shooting Kirk seems to be brought on by his impatience to actually meet up with the deity-impersonator), he's generally pretty pleasant towards the people he's kept as his prisoners. Towards the people he, well, recruits for lack of a better word, he's pretty charming (J'onn, for instance). He can have a pretty good sense of humor (which is probably near-non-existent in the usually stoic Vulcans).
**** That and SFDebris was unnecessarily insulting and sexist towards the Romulan ambassador, Caithlin Dar, and the actress playing her (I mean, if you didn't like the lines she was given, that was the script's fault, not the actress'), when he was doing the review (it's one thing to complain about a poorly written character, but saying that the actress got the role because of basically Casting Couch is inappropriate and unnecessary and could have been cut out of the review without it being a particularly great loss. So could the comment about tapping her head being like testing the ripeness of a melon -- referring to...well, it's a rather oblique comment to he thinks she's stupid. And yeah, maybe I'm being a bit overly sensitive here -- what can I say? Being oversensitive is one of my many talents -- but he really wouldn't make a comment like that about a male character, would he?). I mean, at the risk of a pun, what the hell was up with that? The review was decent, but those potshots actually did make me feel kind of uncomfortable. I mean, people bitch about the Nostalgia Critic nowadays, and people were saying "oh, SF Debris did those Star Trek reviews better", but at least the Critic didn't include an unnecessary potshot like that at the character (and note that nobody basically came out and said, "Hey, that was inappropriate", so...yeah). Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
***** And like Linkara, I'm not going to get Squicked over that. Mostly, I'm just wishing Uhura had more stuff to do besides the fan dance and her, um, crush on Scotty. Seriously, Uhura's a great character, old version and new version, and she deserves a lot better than that.
And that's my take on The Final Frontier. Should get to Undiscovered Country soon enough. And Beyond -- mostly have to schedule a good date to see it, but I definitely expect to enjoy it when I see it.
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Date: 2016-08-05 03:40 pm (UTC)I've always found the friendships and camaraderie that Spock had to be respectful both ways; a little bit of teasing, perhaps, by others, but that was it. The whole 'logic' thing and *honor, for those who have read Chris Claremont's X-Men* is a slog and expounds on the characters, but that doesn't make it less of a slog for me. I'm not that introspective, I guess.
Made me smile to think of DS9; some said it was the best of the spinoff series. It did have a strong sense of location with the space station and solid villains.
Happy movie viewing! I've seen two this year: "Finding Dory," which was adorable, and "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot," an excellent character study.
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Date: 2016-08-05 04:39 pm (UTC)Very true re: Spock's friendships. And it's clear that even though he and, for instance, McCoy go at each other's throats a lot, they really do care a great deal about each other. (The scene in SEARCH FOR SPOCK where McCoy begs Spock to remember is a pretty lovely example of that) I think by and large on the Enterprise, people mostly treat Spock...sort of like he's an equal, like he's one of them. Which I can imagine, considering the crap Spock's had to deal with regarding his heritage, is a pretty massive relief for him. (And they do the same for Uhura and Sulu and Chekov as well, which is doubly pretty awesome considering the time period that TOS was made)
DS9's pretty good. I didn't like the pilot (then again, to be fair, I was watching the pilot episode when I was feeling rather physically awful, so maybe that contributed), but stuff like "Duet" is amazing and stuff like "The Magnificent Ferengi" is really clever. And I think it's cool that they didn't make Dukat just a one-dimensional dictator, but really took the time to flesh him out. (The fact Marc Alaimo did a great job helps)
Thanks! And yeah, I haven't seen "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot", but "Finding Dory" was excellent!
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Date: 2016-08-07 02:14 pm (UTC)But yes, its treatment of the female characters was on the shoddy side. I would have changed Sybok's sex -- although that means losing the great pun of the reveal of their relationship as siblings -- just because Trek is pretty weak when it comes to female antagonists messianic female power through a completely asexual process is just rare in and of itself as a story element. Of course in the context of Spock and vulcan women, that raises other issues: namely his involuntary fiancée planning on having either Spock or Kirk kill the other. Imagine that little tete-a-tete having come at hm in the wake of his big sister basically telling the whole Surakan Logic culture to go fuck itself.
Hell, just thinking about whether the tropes invoked by a fem!Sybok would be good or bad is kinda boggling. Would Caithlin Dar -- clearly the single most faaaab-u-lous member of the Romulan diplomatic corps during this initial period of détente -- have remained even a remotely viable character given the potential similarities between the two?
I agree that we really lost the chance to explore the largely untapped worlds of the supporting crew members by keeping the lense of the story so tightly focused on the triumvirate. But given the reaction to the film I think cutting the klingon pursuit ship out of the story to give more opportunity to focus on them would have been a mistake. His connection to Genesis made him into a marked man, so it's actually thematically appropriate that being on a mission for god should run into that.
As to the reason behind Sybok's subterfuge? I suspect it's spelled out somewhere that anything less physically substantial than a starship category vessel would never have been able to make it through the barrier.
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Date: 2016-08-07 04:30 pm (UTC)I admit I kind of tossed around the idea of a female Sybok time and time again (it's an interesting concept), but I didn't remember it until you brought it up, actually. I think it definitely would be interesting, and you're right about that -- in terms of Trek in general, female antagonists are pretty rare. And in TOS, they're probably (again, from what I can gather) even rarer. (Like I said, correct me if I'm wrong) And a female anti-villain in the TOS era's probably really rare. I agree that a female villain who isn't somehow sexually charged is pretty rare in general -- closest I can think of is Kreia from the second Knights of the Old Republic (Star Wars) game. Which sucks, because I think like male villains, female villains should definitely have the option of exploring all different types of complex parts. And when they're allowed to, it usually gets things really right, but it's not really a frequent occasion.
(And I haven't seen "Amok Time", but yeah, I can imagine the element of a fem!Sybok would make things interesting)
As for similarities with Dar -- I think she could still be a viable character. I think she and fem!Sybok would actually be very different -- what I got from the film was that she was very optimistic and idealistic, strong-willed, having a bit of a wry sense of humor...things like that. Fem!Sybok would definitely be more experienced, definitely still being idealistic and a bit misguided, well-spoken...basically, like her canon counterpart.
(One thing I noticed about Sybok, among others, is he has a very different way of speaking than Spock. Spock has a very...sort of scientist way of talking, for lack of a better word, while Sybok...the way he speaks is kind of like some weird wizard-therapist-minister mash-up. Very formal-ish too. For example, when he's speaking to J'onn the farmer in the beginning -- "What you seek. What all men have sought since time began." -- or speaking to the Enterprise, or speaking to the God impersonator, he's very formal, almost poetic. With a bit of informal dropped in -- there's his "Are you afraid to hear me out?" to Kirk and some of his dialogue with Spock. Even in his initial reunion with Spock, there's something very open about it, sort of like they're picking up where they left off)
So I really do like your idea. I guess I was so busy thinking about how thoroughly (in my opinion, of course) Uhura kind of got the short straw that I didn't think about that...at first.
Ah. Good point about Klaa and Vixis. And they do give Kirk and co. an interesting, if brief, Enemy Mine with Sybok and his followers.
And that makes sense. I guess that's why Sybok decided to basically hitchhike on the Enterprise; it was the best ship that could get through the Great Barrier without going to pieces.