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ladyofleithian...and it was spectacular. Seriously, spectacular.
Trailers I Got:
-Pre-trailers trailer for FLOWERS IN THE ATTIC. Have never read the book (and probably shouldn't; from what I heard, it's disturbing as all hell), but from what I can gather of the original source material, this trailer looks really good. Brutal and heartbreaking (I seriously flinched in the theater watching), but good.
-Polar Bears: Basically sort of based on the Coca-Cola Bears. Odd choice for an adaptation (and to badly paraphrase Nash, I eagerly await Frosted Flakes: The Movie), but it was pretty cute.
-The Legend of Hercules: Let's just say as someone who was a huge Greek and Roman mythology buff when she was younger, I wasn't exactly happy with the trailer. Maybe I'm nitpicking/being an asshole, but let's say in terms of representing Hercules, the Disney version was more accurate, and the Disney version took a shitload of liberties (to say the least) with the story. (E.g. Hera being Hercules' mother, Hades being a villain when he was really more Dark Is Not Evil in the mythology, etc.) So yeah, don't think I'm going to go see it. Again, maybe I'm being an asshole, maybe the final product will turn out a lot differently, maybe it'll be enjoyable even if it took liberties (see also a lot of Disney adaptations), but so far, the trailer doesn't look good. It just doesn't help that it looks generic as all hell.
-47 Ronin: Just...hell yeah. Seriously, hell yeah.
-Captain America: The Winter Soldier: Looks fantastic. Black Widow kicking ass, Captain America being awesome, possible conflicts within the Avengers themselves...I sadly haven't seen the first Captain America movie, but honestly? I'm definitely psyched to see this one.
-The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug: The more I see it, the more I get really fucking hyped if only to go and see it soon. Seriously. Hyped.
In all honesty, that's the most that I remember, really. We got a lot of trailers, and they kind of blurred together, really.
Theater Experience:
I actually went to see it with both my mom and my dad. Dad wasn't expecting to like it, and Mom wasn't either, but they both ended up enjoying it (although Dad said that it would probably be better if he knew the characters a little better. For all intents and purposes, we pretty much dropped him in cold without really knowing about the previous Thor film, which was probably not a good idea). Also, the projectors didn't go black on the commercials prior to the trailers, which was definitely a good thing because I didn't have to worry about the projector being broken. And then afterwards, we decided to go to Bonefish for takeout, and Mom and I got to talk a little bit about some stuff that was bothering me when I got home, which was good.
The movie itself:
I really have only half the knowledge of the first Thor film, because I kind of stopped prior to the whole thing with the Jotuns and Thor and co. sort of attacking Jotunheim. (Yeah I know, weird place to stop no doubt, but still) Still, I had enough knowledge of stuff from The Avengers and whatnot to really understand what was going on -- e.g. the matter of why Loki was being brought back to Asgard to be imprisoned; because of his whole stunt with the Chitauri. Which definitely made certain scenes all the more heartbreaking, such as Frigga's reaction when Loki's brought before her, and also (and something that actually made me tempted to yell at Loki right in the theater) saying that she's not his mother. Granted, she isn't, but it kind of felt like he was rejecting her as well as Odin, especially in terms of her just trying to get through to him and trying to help him. I know I definitely wanted to reach through the screen and slap him, really. On the other hand, considering his reaction after Frigga is killed, I think it might have been Loki mostly saying it in a moment of anger, really, mostly over the whole Well Done Son Guy thing that drove him on to this in the first place. Seriously, if he hadn't wanted to somehow make Odin proud (never mind that Odin loved him deeply) as well as his shock over being a Jotun (the very enemy of the Asgardians. I think someone on TV Tropes said it best when they said it was like a child finding out that he was the boogeyman). It definitely doesn't excuse his actions, but I think it makes his character all the more tragic and all the more compelling. He doesn't think that what he's doing is evil. He thinks that he's trying to do the right thing, to make his adoptive parents proud (hell, from what I can gather, he kills his -- apparently very deserving of his fate -- birth father just to make Odin proud of him), and, from his dialogue about the events of The Avengers, because Earth needs someone to be their leader, and who would do so if not him? And when Frigga's killed by Malekith, he actually all but breaks everything in his jail cell in a rage. Not to mention his fight with Thor on the way to the realm of the Dark Elves while Jane is still unconscious, with him basically accusing Thor of letting her die -- also known as one of those scenes that just broke my heart in the theater. Thor's anger, Loki's anger, and a lot more. I'll be getting to Frigga in a bit, though.
I think to top it off, Loki's a very interesting character. He's tragic, but he's not a victim; he's still very much capable of evil (see also him taking the throne from Odin at the end, after what I can only infer was Odin's murder at Loki's hands, and the events of New York, and a heck of a lot more) and yet, if the matter of the Dark Realm is any indication, he's very much capable of good (after all, he did try and help Thor, even sacrificing himself to do so. Though he obviously got better and turned back to his old villain-y self). That and really, when he's not being an asshole (to say the least; there were definitely times in the movie where I just wanted to reach out and slap him), he can be very funny, such as his comments on Thor's piloting skills (which are really just a cover for Thor's actual plan) -- "Good job, Thor! You just decapitated your grandfather!" after Thor...well, accidentally decapitates a statue of his grandfather, Bor. Also, him using his shapeshifting abilities to his advantage while they're breaking out -- the whole breakout scene was also freaking awesome, really -- and changing into Captain America briefly just to annoy the hell out of Thor.
So yeah. I like Loki. He's a really interesting character. He's not a one-dimensional villain who's there just for the sake of being evil -- he has his reasons, he has elements of pathos without really diminishing how manipulative and threatening he really is, he has his redeeming qualities and his villainous qualities in equal measure...he's definitely a character that people can take notes from when writing villains, because really, where's the appeal in writing a villain who's just there for the sake of being evil? At least, unless it's in a comedy or a horror film, I don't see the appeal. I mean, just look at villains like Darth Vader or the Master. Look at Khan Noonien Singh. Just to name three.
Speaking of villains, Malekith was pretty good too. I know I already loved Christopher Eccleston from his work in Doctor Who (anyone who hasn't seen his work in Doctor Who, go and watch it, as it is just fantastic), and he really shone here. I know that the opening scene, for example, detailing the whole war between the Dark Elves and the Asgardians -- also known as probably one of the best prologue scenes since Fellowship of the Ring. It definitely uses that sort of the same technique, showing what you need to know, making the narration compelling, etc. And Eccleston -- I think the best way to describe Christopher Eccleston is that he has a sort of natural presence; when he starts talking, you start listening. I know the scenes with his henchmen, for example, were very chilling. Any scene of him planning and plotting, really. Not to mention when he kills Frigga -- I definitely knew that it was coming (thanks to spoilers), but I definitely didn't know that it was going to be that brutal. And Frigga -- the way she went out was just fantastic. Just basically kicking the living shit out of Malekith when he goes after Jane, and not to mention setting up a whole illusion of Jane just to throw him out. And refusing to tell him where the Aether was. Honestly? That's how you do a Dying Moment of Awesome, really. Also really heartwrenching, what with Thor's reaction, and Loki's, as I mentioned above, and Odin's -- because he and Frigga, from what I can gather, were definitely Happily Married, and not just that, but Frigga was probably one of his biggest protectors. As she basically puts it, he wouldn't have made it that far if not for her. I know that her funeral as well was just heartwrenching -- the music definitely didn't help. Also, setting Frigga's funeral boat on fire, and setting the rest of the boats on fire as well. And Odin providing a sort of way, I suppose, for Frigga's spirit to reach the afterlife. I think that Frigga's death and her funeral was definitely one of the most well-done bits of the film, just because of how heartwrenching, and yet, with Frigga going out fighting, awesome, bits of the film. Because Frigga died making sure that Jane was safe. That...she's definitely one of the bravest characters in fiction I've ever known. Other moments were the interactions between Thor and Loki, what with Loki dying (although it didn't stick) and Thor begging him to stay with him (I think what made it hurt even more for me was just that thought -- before the ending scene, obviously -- "Thor's going to be the only one who ever knew what Loki did, isn't he?") and earlier, what was previously sort of played for laughs (emphasis on the "sort of". The line about Thor basically giving up on his brother was definitely played for drama, and definitely hurt, because I can only imagine the pain that it caused for the both of them -- Loki knowing that he was given up on, and Thor because he didn't want to give up on Loki. Because he cared about him once. And honestly, I think he still does. But the other bits, with the "betray him/me and you're dead", complete with Loki's snarky replies, were definitely played for laughs) sort of becoming poignant with Thor saying that he wished that he could trust Loki. Poor Thor. And poor Loki, for that matter. I think at the end of the day, I just want to hug them both.
Even Malekith, I think, got a bit of a poignant moment -- two, actually. One is something that I don't think anyone really mentioned, when he's standing in the Dark Elf realm, and he sort of pinches soil between his fingers and bemoans what happened, and what the Asgardians did (it just seemed, at least from the way Christopher Eccleston was playing it, almost like he felt like his home and his way of life had just been ripped from him. Barely excuses what he did -- and as I'm going to discuss more, there could be a little more -- but it was definitely a lovely, if short, moment). The second was when he expressed a moment of compassion and concern towards Algrim, who becomes Kurse later -- a sort of reminder that he's going to basically be damned to hell, even while he's injecting the necessary darkness into him. Sort of two brief moments of HIdden Depths from Malekith -- I think at least in the first one, it's sort of him missing what used to be his home, in a sort of twisted way, at least from the way that Christopher Eccleston played it. It's almost as if, for a moment, he's not just a complete and utter bastard (a bastard who was willing to sacrifice his own troops as well, with a heavy dose of Never My Fault considering he blames Asgard for what happened. *Shudders*). And for the second one, there's definitely something about Algrim and Malekith's dynamic as the Dragon and the Big Bad that's oddly lovely, considering that really, not many works of fiction really have a relationship between the Big Bad and his Dragon like that, where there's a sort of trust and devotion between them, because Algrim's continually protective of Malekith, watching over him, telling him that he should rest after he's wounded at Asgard, etc. It's definitely something that I really like about the Dark Elves in this film; their sort of undying loyalty and devotion to one another. They're destructive Omnicidal Maniacs, and yet no matter what happens, they're sticking this one out to the end. There's something about that, I think, that's a good thing to have with a villain, or series of villains -- give them some degree of redeeming qualities, even if, for example, it's just a case of your villain liking the opera.
In general, really, the characters were really goddamn good. I know, for example, the matter of Eric Selvig (a character that I can't say that I'm entirely familiar with. I'm certain that once I get to watching the first Thor film in full, I'll understand him better. That and possibly rewatching The Avengers) -- he was just fantastic. I know, for example, his scenes with him going about without his pants (and Thor's confusion) because it helps him think, as well as the matter of earlier, when he meets up with Jane and company and says, "How did you find me?" and their replies, "We saw you naked on TV!" And there was something about the TV report about him streaking that was funnier than it should have been, because it kind of reminded me of something that would show up on Nash's WTFIWWY Live (basically, for those who don't watch/haven't been inundated with my WTFIWWY posts in the past, one of many recurring themes on the show is the matter of people running around naked in public. Don't ask why). That and there was the whole scene with him explaining the matter of dark matter and the separate worlds to a really bored audience, demonstrating with two shoes and later, two pencils. And when he explains it to them, one of them (played apparently, according to TV Tropes, by Stan Lee himself) just asks if he can have his shoe back. That was one of those things that made me start laughing in the theater. That and there was the matter of the birds flying around -- also really honestly creepy as shit, when it wasn't prompting my brain to make a joke about Hitchcock's The Birds. -- and Selvig saying that it's comforting to realize that the world is crazier than you are. (Also kind of sad, in a way, poor guy) And yet at the same time, his research definitely proves invaluable in terms of defeating Malekith. I think that was one of my favorite parts of the film, just everyone banding together to save the world. Not to mention of course the Loki bits -- including a really awesome moment when he makes it look like he's going to join Malekith's side. I know in the theater, I was just really pissed off at first, and then I realized that Loki was just setting Malekith's side up just to get the shit kicked out of them. Him killing Kurse (and the subsequent "See you in hell" while he's lying there dying) was also awesome. Yeah, Loki? Your BAMF status is definitely deserved. Honestly, Loki in general was just badass, whether it was his Enemy Mine with Thor and company, or his bit at the end where it's revealed that he took the throne for himself. Also, the matter of Darcy -- Darcy was just awesome, really. I know that her interrupting Jane's date near the beginning was really funny, and interrupting Jane and Thor while they're kissing, were definitely two of my favorite scenes with her. Others included accidentally dropping the car keys into one of the weak points that connect Earth and the world of the Dark Elves while sort of experimenting with dropping objects, and helping out during the battle (also crossing into funny when Jane, thanks to sort of...the weak points connecting the Earth and the Dark World sort of making things disappear and reappear in other places *, runs across her and Ian kissing at one point). Jane was awesome too -- stuff like her slapping Loki ("That was for New York!" indeed), and her trying to rescue Thor when the Dark Elf ship starts collapsing, and her just doing her science-y stuff, were definitely some of the scenes that really made me like her an awful lot. Sif too -- I know things like her kicking ass in the beginning of the movie, all while exchanging some banter with Thor (her saying "I had everything under control!" and then Thor saying, "Is that why everything's on fire?" was definitely very funny. And the battle in general, including Thor taking down that stone megalith -- who I swear to God looks almost like a cross between the troll from Fellowship of the Ring and Azog from The Hobbit -- and the opposing troops promptly surrendering...that was really awesome), as well as rescuing Jane from where she was imprisoned, was really freaking awesome. Not to mention Thor himself -- I know his interactions with Loki were very touching, as well as his relationship with Jane in this film (it's just...adorable, really. Yes, I definitely ship them), and his interactions with people like Dr. Selvig, Ian, Heimdall (who was also awesome, BTW. He's become one of my favorites as well), Odin (I know, for example, Odin saying that he's proud of him was definitely a lovely moment considering...well, the events of the previous Thor film), etc. were awesome. Also, him managing to go into the Aether to try and defeat Malekith personally was just fucking awesome. I know Odin was another character that I really liked -- I know that others will probably disagree with me on this, but I really liked Odin. I think Anthony Hopkins did a really good job playing him as this relatively reasonable, if strict (see also his initial reaction to Jane) ruler figure. And Anthony Hopkins is a great actor -- I know that his reaction when he learns about Frigga being in danger (also known as the prelude to nearly crying at Frigga's death), as well as his whole conversation with Thor when Thor is thinking about taking Jane away from Asgard -- I know that his line about fighting the Dark Elves to the last Asgardian was chilling, as well as when Thor calls him out on it ("What makes you different from Malekith", basically. **) and his reply, "The difference is that I win." That was definitely one scene that gave me chills, and made me worry about Odin possibly going over the edge. I also really liked Ian; he was really cute, funny (such as him trying to bluff his way out by saying he's Selvig's son to help Thor when he and Darcy are going to find Thor and Jane) and badass (such as when he hurls a fucking car at Malekith's minions to protect Darcy). So yeah, the characters in this were great. They really were. Which I think is really important, because...well, plot's all well and good (it's great, really), but it's definitely important that we have characters we care about.
Not to mention the climax itself. Holy shit -- it was the perfect blend of nightmarish (I know the whole scene with Malekith's ships cutting through the Earth as they invaded was enough to give me chills), awesome (basically, just about everything that happened, what with Ian throwing that car, Selvig, Jane and Darcy working together to take down Malekith) and even funny (the whole bit with Ian and Darcy, Thor having to take the metro at one point to get back to Jane and the others) -- it was just a fantastic climax. And, of course, the Wham Shot at the end when we learn that Loki's taken the throne from Odin. (I just hope that Odin isn't dead. I think I said to Mom at one point that maybe Loki had Odin stashed in a cupboard somewhere -- I just hope that's the case and Thor and co. break him out and they kick Loki's ass together) I think it's all the more effective considering that up until then it was all nice and heartwarming and stuff like that with Thor going to Asgard to work things out with his father (especially considering that he'd committed treason against him, albeit for good reasons) and then as Thor leaves -- boom, Wham Shot. Also a Moment of Awesome and Nightmare Fuel. The movie was generally really good with the Nightmare Fuel (Jane getting infected with the Aether, for example, Malekith absorbing the Aether, Malekith beating Thor up and demanding that he look into his eyes during Loki and Thor's Batman Gambit against him -- yeah, Batman Gambit, but still terrifying -- Odin going off the deep end for a bit, Algrim becoming Kurse, Malekith's soldiers, etc.) and that was definitely no exception. I think it's probably one of the most awesome and terrifying twist endings I've ever seen.
Not to mention the ending credits scene with the Collector -- I can't say that I'm familiar with the character (I haven't read the comics that have him, note to self, do so), but the whole scene with him was really cool, and really mysterious. I'm really interested in seeing where it's going, really, assuming we see the Collector again (which I think we will. Marvel's not one for just leaving things hanging). Honestly, it was an excellent movie. Seriously.
* Which makes for an interesting climax, to say the least.
** Although I will say that it's kind of a false equivalency because Odin wasn't hell-bent on destroying everything. Calling him out on a Captain Ahab moment is all well and good, Thor, but comparing him to Malekith is pretty drastic. I'm all for Not So Different and What The Hell Hero (and Odin was definitely scary there), but that bit kind of bugged me.
So overall? Go see it. Seriously. It's fucking awesome.
Trailers I Got:
-Pre-trailers trailer for FLOWERS IN THE ATTIC. Have never read the book (and probably shouldn't; from what I heard, it's disturbing as all hell), but from what I can gather of the original source material, this trailer looks really good. Brutal and heartbreaking (I seriously flinched in the theater watching), but good.
-Polar Bears: Basically sort of based on the Coca-Cola Bears. Odd choice for an adaptation (and to badly paraphrase Nash, I eagerly await Frosted Flakes: The Movie), but it was pretty cute.
-The Legend of Hercules: Let's just say as someone who was a huge Greek and Roman mythology buff when she was younger, I wasn't exactly happy with the trailer. Maybe I'm nitpicking/being an asshole, but let's say in terms of representing Hercules, the Disney version was more accurate, and the Disney version took a shitload of liberties (to say the least) with the story. (E.g. Hera being Hercules' mother, Hades being a villain when he was really more Dark Is Not Evil in the mythology, etc.) So yeah, don't think I'm going to go see it. Again, maybe I'm being an asshole, maybe the final product will turn out a lot differently, maybe it'll be enjoyable even if it took liberties (see also a lot of Disney adaptations), but so far, the trailer doesn't look good. It just doesn't help that it looks generic as all hell.
-47 Ronin: Just...hell yeah. Seriously, hell yeah.
-Captain America: The Winter Soldier: Looks fantastic. Black Widow kicking ass, Captain America being awesome, possible conflicts within the Avengers themselves...I sadly haven't seen the first Captain America movie, but honestly? I'm definitely psyched to see this one.
-The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug: The more I see it, the more I get really fucking hyped if only to go and see it soon. Seriously. Hyped.
In all honesty, that's the most that I remember, really. We got a lot of trailers, and they kind of blurred together, really.
Theater Experience:
I actually went to see it with both my mom and my dad. Dad wasn't expecting to like it, and Mom wasn't either, but they both ended up enjoying it (although Dad said that it would probably be better if he knew the characters a little better. For all intents and purposes, we pretty much dropped him in cold without really knowing about the previous Thor film, which was probably not a good idea). Also, the projectors didn't go black on the commercials prior to the trailers, which was definitely a good thing because I didn't have to worry about the projector being broken. And then afterwards, we decided to go to Bonefish for takeout, and Mom and I got to talk a little bit about some stuff that was bothering me when I got home, which was good.
The movie itself:
I really have only half the knowledge of the first Thor film, because I kind of stopped prior to the whole thing with the Jotuns and Thor and co. sort of attacking Jotunheim. (Yeah I know, weird place to stop no doubt, but still) Still, I had enough knowledge of stuff from The Avengers and whatnot to really understand what was going on -- e.g. the matter of why Loki was being brought back to Asgard to be imprisoned; because of his whole stunt with the Chitauri. Which definitely made certain scenes all the more heartbreaking, such as Frigga's reaction when Loki's brought before her, and also (and something that actually made me tempted to yell at Loki right in the theater) saying that she's not his mother. Granted, she isn't, but it kind of felt like he was rejecting her as well as Odin, especially in terms of her just trying to get through to him and trying to help him. I know I definitely wanted to reach through the screen and slap him, really. On the other hand, considering his reaction after Frigga is killed, I think it might have been Loki mostly saying it in a moment of anger, really, mostly over the whole Well Done Son Guy thing that drove him on to this in the first place. Seriously, if he hadn't wanted to somehow make Odin proud (never mind that Odin loved him deeply) as well as his shock over being a Jotun (the very enemy of the Asgardians. I think someone on TV Tropes said it best when they said it was like a child finding out that he was the boogeyman). It definitely doesn't excuse his actions, but I think it makes his character all the more tragic and all the more compelling. He doesn't think that what he's doing is evil. He thinks that he's trying to do the right thing, to make his adoptive parents proud (hell, from what I can gather, he kills his -- apparently very deserving of his fate -- birth father just to make Odin proud of him), and, from his dialogue about the events of The Avengers, because Earth needs someone to be their leader, and who would do so if not him? And when Frigga's killed by Malekith, he actually all but breaks everything in his jail cell in a rage. Not to mention his fight with Thor on the way to the realm of the Dark Elves while Jane is still unconscious, with him basically accusing Thor of letting her die -- also known as one of those scenes that just broke my heart in the theater. Thor's anger, Loki's anger, and a lot more. I'll be getting to Frigga in a bit, though.
I think to top it off, Loki's a very interesting character. He's tragic, but he's not a victim; he's still very much capable of evil (see also him taking the throne from Odin at the end, after what I can only infer was Odin's murder at Loki's hands, and the events of New York, and a heck of a lot more) and yet, if the matter of the Dark Realm is any indication, he's very much capable of good (after all, he did try and help Thor, even sacrificing himself to do so. Though he obviously got better and turned back to his old villain-y self). That and really, when he's not being an asshole (to say the least; there were definitely times in the movie where I just wanted to reach out and slap him), he can be very funny, such as his comments on Thor's piloting skills (which are really just a cover for Thor's actual plan) -- "Good job, Thor! You just decapitated your grandfather!" after Thor...well, accidentally decapitates a statue of his grandfather, Bor. Also, him using his shapeshifting abilities to his advantage while they're breaking out -- the whole breakout scene was also freaking awesome, really -- and changing into Captain America briefly just to annoy the hell out of Thor.
So yeah. I like Loki. He's a really interesting character. He's not a one-dimensional villain who's there just for the sake of being evil -- he has his reasons, he has elements of pathos without really diminishing how manipulative and threatening he really is, he has his redeeming qualities and his villainous qualities in equal measure...he's definitely a character that people can take notes from when writing villains, because really, where's the appeal in writing a villain who's just there for the sake of being evil? At least, unless it's in a comedy or a horror film, I don't see the appeal. I mean, just look at villains like Darth Vader or the Master. Look at Khan Noonien Singh. Just to name three.
Speaking of villains, Malekith was pretty good too. I know I already loved Christopher Eccleston from his work in Doctor Who (anyone who hasn't seen his work in Doctor Who, go and watch it, as it is just fantastic), and he really shone here. I know that the opening scene, for example, detailing the whole war between the Dark Elves and the Asgardians -- also known as probably one of the best prologue scenes since Fellowship of the Ring. It definitely uses that sort of the same technique, showing what you need to know, making the narration compelling, etc. And Eccleston -- I think the best way to describe Christopher Eccleston is that he has a sort of natural presence; when he starts talking, you start listening. I know the scenes with his henchmen, for example, were very chilling. Any scene of him planning and plotting, really. Not to mention when he kills Frigga -- I definitely knew that it was coming (thanks to spoilers), but I definitely didn't know that it was going to be that brutal. And Frigga -- the way she went out was just fantastic. Just basically kicking the living shit out of Malekith when he goes after Jane, and not to mention setting up a whole illusion of Jane just to throw him out. And refusing to tell him where the Aether was. Honestly? That's how you do a Dying Moment of Awesome, really. Also really heartwrenching, what with Thor's reaction, and Loki's, as I mentioned above, and Odin's -- because he and Frigga, from what I can gather, were definitely Happily Married, and not just that, but Frigga was probably one of his biggest protectors. As she basically puts it, he wouldn't have made it that far if not for her. I know that her funeral as well was just heartwrenching -- the music definitely didn't help. Also, setting Frigga's funeral boat on fire, and setting the rest of the boats on fire as well. And Odin providing a sort of way, I suppose, for Frigga's spirit to reach the afterlife. I think that Frigga's death and her funeral was definitely one of the most well-done bits of the film, just because of how heartwrenching, and yet, with Frigga going out fighting, awesome, bits of the film. Because Frigga died making sure that Jane was safe. That...she's definitely one of the bravest characters in fiction I've ever known. Other moments were the interactions between Thor and Loki, what with Loki dying (although it didn't stick) and Thor begging him to stay with him (I think what made it hurt even more for me was just that thought -- before the ending scene, obviously -- "Thor's going to be the only one who ever knew what Loki did, isn't he?") and earlier, what was previously sort of played for laughs (emphasis on the "sort of". The line about Thor basically giving up on his brother was definitely played for drama, and definitely hurt, because I can only imagine the pain that it caused for the both of them -- Loki knowing that he was given up on, and Thor because he didn't want to give up on Loki. Because he cared about him once. And honestly, I think he still does. But the other bits, with the "betray him/me and you're dead", complete with Loki's snarky replies, were definitely played for laughs) sort of becoming poignant with Thor saying that he wished that he could trust Loki. Poor Thor. And poor Loki, for that matter. I think at the end of the day, I just want to hug them both.
Even Malekith, I think, got a bit of a poignant moment -- two, actually. One is something that I don't think anyone really mentioned, when he's standing in the Dark Elf realm, and he sort of pinches soil between his fingers and bemoans what happened, and what the Asgardians did (it just seemed, at least from the way Christopher Eccleston was playing it, almost like he felt like his home and his way of life had just been ripped from him. Barely excuses what he did -- and as I'm going to discuss more, there could be a little more -- but it was definitely a lovely, if short, moment). The second was when he expressed a moment of compassion and concern towards Algrim, who becomes Kurse later -- a sort of reminder that he's going to basically be damned to hell, even while he's injecting the necessary darkness into him. Sort of two brief moments of HIdden Depths from Malekith -- I think at least in the first one, it's sort of him missing what used to be his home, in a sort of twisted way, at least from the way that Christopher Eccleston played it. It's almost as if, for a moment, he's not just a complete and utter bastard (a bastard who was willing to sacrifice his own troops as well, with a heavy dose of Never My Fault considering he blames Asgard for what happened. *Shudders*). And for the second one, there's definitely something about Algrim and Malekith's dynamic as the Dragon and the Big Bad that's oddly lovely, considering that really, not many works of fiction really have a relationship between the Big Bad and his Dragon like that, where there's a sort of trust and devotion between them, because Algrim's continually protective of Malekith, watching over him, telling him that he should rest after he's wounded at Asgard, etc. It's definitely something that I really like about the Dark Elves in this film; their sort of undying loyalty and devotion to one another. They're destructive Omnicidal Maniacs, and yet no matter what happens, they're sticking this one out to the end. There's something about that, I think, that's a good thing to have with a villain, or series of villains -- give them some degree of redeeming qualities, even if, for example, it's just a case of your villain liking the opera.
In general, really, the characters were really goddamn good. I know, for example, the matter of Eric Selvig (a character that I can't say that I'm entirely familiar with. I'm certain that once I get to watching the first Thor film in full, I'll understand him better. That and possibly rewatching The Avengers) -- he was just fantastic. I know, for example, his scenes with him going about without his pants (and Thor's confusion) because it helps him think, as well as the matter of earlier, when he meets up with Jane and company and says, "How did you find me?" and their replies, "We saw you naked on TV!" And there was something about the TV report about him streaking that was funnier than it should have been, because it kind of reminded me of something that would show up on Nash's WTFIWWY Live (basically, for those who don't watch/haven't been inundated with my WTFIWWY posts in the past, one of many recurring themes on the show is the matter of people running around naked in public. Don't ask why). That and there was the whole scene with him explaining the matter of dark matter and the separate worlds to a really bored audience, demonstrating with two shoes and later, two pencils. And when he explains it to them, one of them (played apparently, according to TV Tropes, by Stan Lee himself) just asks if he can have his shoe back. That was one of those things that made me start laughing in the theater. That and there was the matter of the birds flying around -- also really honestly creepy as shit, when it wasn't prompting my brain to make a joke about Hitchcock's The Birds. -- and Selvig saying that it's comforting to realize that the world is crazier than you are. (Also kind of sad, in a way, poor guy) And yet at the same time, his research definitely proves invaluable in terms of defeating Malekith. I think that was one of my favorite parts of the film, just everyone banding together to save the world. Not to mention of course the Loki bits -- including a really awesome moment when he makes it look like he's going to join Malekith's side. I know in the theater, I was just really pissed off at first, and then I realized that Loki was just setting Malekith's side up just to get the shit kicked out of them. Him killing Kurse (and the subsequent "See you in hell" while he's lying there dying) was also awesome. Yeah, Loki? Your BAMF status is definitely deserved. Honestly, Loki in general was just badass, whether it was his Enemy Mine with Thor and company, or his bit at the end where it's revealed that he took the throne for himself. Also, the matter of Darcy -- Darcy was just awesome, really. I know that her interrupting Jane's date near the beginning was really funny, and interrupting Jane and Thor while they're kissing, were definitely two of my favorite scenes with her. Others included accidentally dropping the car keys into one of the weak points that connect Earth and the world of the Dark Elves while sort of experimenting with dropping objects, and helping out during the battle (also crossing into funny when Jane, thanks to sort of...the weak points connecting the Earth and the Dark World sort of making things disappear and reappear in other places *, runs across her and Ian kissing at one point). Jane was awesome too -- stuff like her slapping Loki ("That was for New York!" indeed), and her trying to rescue Thor when the Dark Elf ship starts collapsing, and her just doing her science-y stuff, were definitely some of the scenes that really made me like her an awful lot. Sif too -- I know things like her kicking ass in the beginning of the movie, all while exchanging some banter with Thor (her saying "I had everything under control!" and then Thor saying, "Is that why everything's on fire?" was definitely very funny. And the battle in general, including Thor taking down that stone megalith -- who I swear to God looks almost like a cross between the troll from Fellowship of the Ring and Azog from The Hobbit -- and the opposing troops promptly surrendering...that was really awesome), as well as rescuing Jane from where she was imprisoned, was really freaking awesome. Not to mention Thor himself -- I know his interactions with Loki were very touching, as well as his relationship with Jane in this film (it's just...adorable, really. Yes, I definitely ship them), and his interactions with people like Dr. Selvig, Ian, Heimdall (who was also awesome, BTW. He's become one of my favorites as well), Odin (I know, for example, Odin saying that he's proud of him was definitely a lovely moment considering...well, the events of the previous Thor film), etc. were awesome. Also, him managing to go into the Aether to try and defeat Malekith personally was just fucking awesome. I know Odin was another character that I really liked -- I know that others will probably disagree with me on this, but I really liked Odin. I think Anthony Hopkins did a really good job playing him as this relatively reasonable, if strict (see also his initial reaction to Jane) ruler figure. And Anthony Hopkins is a great actor -- I know that his reaction when he learns about Frigga being in danger (also known as the prelude to nearly crying at Frigga's death), as well as his whole conversation with Thor when Thor is thinking about taking Jane away from Asgard -- I know that his line about fighting the Dark Elves to the last Asgardian was chilling, as well as when Thor calls him out on it ("What makes you different from Malekith", basically. **) and his reply, "The difference is that I win." That was definitely one scene that gave me chills, and made me worry about Odin possibly going over the edge. I also really liked Ian; he was really cute, funny (such as him trying to bluff his way out by saying he's Selvig's son to help Thor when he and Darcy are going to find Thor and Jane) and badass (such as when he hurls a fucking car at Malekith's minions to protect Darcy). So yeah, the characters in this were great. They really were. Which I think is really important, because...well, plot's all well and good (it's great, really), but it's definitely important that we have characters we care about.
Not to mention the climax itself. Holy shit -- it was the perfect blend of nightmarish (I know the whole scene with Malekith's ships cutting through the Earth as they invaded was enough to give me chills), awesome (basically, just about everything that happened, what with Ian throwing that car, Selvig, Jane and Darcy working together to take down Malekith) and even funny (the whole bit with Ian and Darcy, Thor having to take the metro at one point to get back to Jane and the others) -- it was just a fantastic climax. And, of course, the Wham Shot at the end when we learn that Loki's taken the throne from Odin. (I just hope that Odin isn't dead. I think I said to Mom at one point that maybe Loki had Odin stashed in a cupboard somewhere -- I just hope that's the case and Thor and co. break him out and they kick Loki's ass together) I think it's all the more effective considering that up until then it was all nice and heartwarming and stuff like that with Thor going to Asgard to work things out with his father (especially considering that he'd committed treason against him, albeit for good reasons) and then as Thor leaves -- boom, Wham Shot. Also a Moment of Awesome and Nightmare Fuel. The movie was generally really good with the Nightmare Fuel (Jane getting infected with the Aether, for example, Malekith absorbing the Aether, Malekith beating Thor up and demanding that he look into his eyes during Loki and Thor's Batman Gambit against him -- yeah, Batman Gambit, but still terrifying -- Odin going off the deep end for a bit, Algrim becoming Kurse, Malekith's soldiers, etc.) and that was definitely no exception. I think it's probably one of the most awesome and terrifying twist endings I've ever seen.
Not to mention the ending credits scene with the Collector -- I can't say that I'm familiar with the character (I haven't read the comics that have him, note to self, do so), but the whole scene with him was really cool, and really mysterious. I'm really interested in seeing where it's going, really, assuming we see the Collector again (which I think we will. Marvel's not one for just leaving things hanging). Honestly, it was an excellent movie. Seriously.
* Which makes for an interesting climax, to say the least.
** Although I will say that it's kind of a false equivalency because Odin wasn't hell-bent on destroying everything. Calling him out on a Captain Ahab moment is all well and good, Thor, but comparing him to Malekith is pretty drastic. I'm all for Not So Different and What The Hell Hero (and Odin was definitely scary there), but that bit kind of bugged me.
So overall? Go see it. Seriously. It's fucking awesome.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2013-12-08 09:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-08 12:52 pm (UTC)And thanks!
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Date: 2013-12-09 01:02 am (UTC)I'm not trying to excuse what Malekith and the Dark Elves did, but I do like to try to work out the villain's motivations and where they're coming from. After all, every person is the hero of their own story, aren't they? And I just wanted to work out how Malekith was the hero in his.
In other news, I spent half the movie muttering "LOKI YOU LI'L SHIT" under my breath. XD
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Date: 2013-12-09 01:20 am (UTC)And God, I know, right? XD I mean, seriously.
And it's really good to see you. *Hugs*
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Date: 2013-12-09 05:45 pm (UTC)Such. a li'l. shit. DAMMIT LOKI.
And now I wanna write fanfiction about Malekith... darn it. I BLAME ECCLES XD
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Date: 2013-12-09 06:22 pm (UTC)And God yes, seriously.
And I say go for it! It sounds awesome. :)
Part 1
Date: 2013-12-11 12:30 am (UTC)We went on Thanksgiving and oddly, only saw two of the same trailers that you saw: Captain America: The Winter Soldier and The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug, both of which look crazy awesome (we also saw a trailer for Days of Future Past which likewise looks terrific). I was a bit disappointed we didn't get to see the trailer for Vampire Academy, another one I'm greatly looking forward to.
According to
And all of the female characters in this movie were awesome. I hadn't seen the spoilers, but I knew Frigga was doomed the moment Malekith and Kurse strode into the room - but I didn't realize she would totally take Malekith apart beforehand (and he didn't manage to kill her - that would be Kurse).
As for Jane, I love how even when she's out of her depth and being hunted by Malekith in Asgard, she's still proactive and bubbling over with curiosity (as you'd expect), and once the Aether is drained from her, she plays a very active part in getting them out of the Dark World and defeating Malekith's forces.
Darcy is, as you say, awesome. I think my favorite part with her, actually was in the scene where she and Ian see the broadcast of Eric Selvig at Stonehenge. Just the expression she makes when she sees the footage is priceless. (On the other hand, I'm pretty sure at least one of my sisters was put out by the way she mistreated Ian during the early parts of the film.) I thought that when Thor and Jane returned to Asgard we might not see any more of her and the rest of Jane's cohort again - I was so glad to be wrong.
I don't have anything to add to what you've said already about Sif.
Heimdall was made of win in the previous movie, and he was only cooler in this one. Thor and Loki were great, too, especially in their scenes together. And Dr. Selvig (and for me, it's gotten to the point where I don't need TV Tropes to spot a Stan Lee cameo in a Marvel superhero movie), and Odin. In his Well Intentioned Extremist scene with Thor cast as level-headed advisor, they were actually reversing their roles from the first film, which I thought was very cool. (I have a hard time imagining he's really dead though - for all the buildup he's gotten in the two movies, I can't see them killing him off-screen.) The warriors three were pretty good, as well.
I'm not much of a fan of Eccleston's tenure as the Doctor, but I enjoyed Malekith and Algrim as villains. I've seen all of the connected Marvel movies now except for The Incredible Hulk, and I've noticed that weak/uninteresting villains is a recurring issue with the films. But as far as I'm concerned, despite being pretty much stock villains, the Dark Elves are second only to Loki and the Chitauri when it comes to franchise antagonists.
Ian was pretty good (and it was actually him who tossed their keys into the dimensional rift, and then Darcy asked if those were their car keys). However, he was blatantly there only to serve as a love interest for Darcy. And considering a major component of every other female character in the movie is her relationship to a male character, throwing one in for Darcy too seems a bit much. (Also when you consider that every confirmed relationship in these movies has been staunchly heterosexual, throwing in yet another one seems a bit much.)
Re: Part 1
Date: 2013-12-11 01:27 am (UTC)And oh God, I almost completely forgot about the Days of Future Past trailer. *Facepalms* Let's say that we got a lot of trailers, really, and the Days of Future Past one looks terrific. It's a very cool premise too as well. I know that my brain, though, when watching the trailer, was trying to figure out where it fit in in the X-men cinematic universe -- basically, was it continuing on from First Class, was it continuing on from X-Men 3? I sort of assumed it was from X-Men 3, though, considering that Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart are reprising their roles, as well as the others from the original X-Men movies (with others like Jennifer Lawrence as Mystique reprising their roles as well). I could be wrong, though. But yeah, Days of Future Past looks awesome.
And God yes, Vampire Academy. I remember reading those books back when I was a kid and they were *awesome*. I really can't wait to see them on the big screen.
And I know, right? Just...they look amazing, the Hobbit and the Captain America Winter Soldier trailers. Seriously.
And those were amazing scenes. Seriously.
And God, yes. Frigga fighting against Malekith if only to protect Jane...that was just awe-inspiring. I definitely knew that Frigga died from reading early spoilers for Thor 2, but I definitely didn't know she'd give Malekith a hell of a fight beforehand. And managing to trick him with an illusion of Jane as well -- Malekith's reaction was just priceless.
Definitely this regarding what you said about Jane. Seriously. Even when she's got the Aether in her, she's still curious and proactive (even running towards Thor when it looks like Loki betrayed them), and then later, when she's helping out with the tech to stop Malekith from destroying everything.
And God, that scene with Darcy. XD Yeah, that was amazing. And I'm definitely glad that we saw more of Darcy. Seriously, she's one of my favorites.
And thanks! Seriously, Sif is amazing. I love Sif.
And yeah, Heimdall's great. He really is. And the scenes between Thor and Loki -- I know in terms of what I saw of the first film, one thing I really liked was how the filmmakers spent some time elaborating on the relationship between the two of them, showing how close they were; I think when the tragedy hits and they become enemies (as I saw in THE AVENGERS), it just becomes all the more heartbreaking. (Especially considering Loki didn't even start out as a bad guy. He just started out as this generally sweet guy, and then he just broke. Which...yeah, I admit I definitely have a fondness for those bad guys. I don't know; I definitely like my all-and-out-evil characters like Palpatine, but there's always something about started-out-as-a-hero-before-becoming-a-villain characters like Anakin that...well, I definitely have a fondness for in fiction, both from a writing standpoint and a casual viewer standpoint) And they really did it well in this film, sort of outlining the aftermath of the events of THE AVENGERS from Thor and Loki's point of view, from the snarkier scenes to the more conflict-filled scenes to even the sweeter scenes like after they end up getting into a fight regarding Frigga's death. And yes, Selvig was awesome. A bit odd, but awesome.
And that's a very good catch! Seriously. Sort of Thor trying to hold Odin back from basically going Ahab against Malekith -- I think my only real problem was the matter of Thor accusing him of being like Malekith; I can understand the idea of Odin being sort of willing to sacrifice even his own men to defeat Malekith, but otherwise...
And yes, Malekith and Algrim were just fantastic. I know that Malekith definitely scared the hell out of me whenever he was onscreen.
And ah. Thanks. Definitely going to go back and correct it. And yeah, that did kind of bug me, to be perfectly honest. That and Darcy and Ian's hook-up was...well, very much Pairing the Spares, really. Yeah, that kind of bugged me.
Re: Part 1
Date: 2013-12-14 10:35 pm (UTC)Well, there's two timelines, and my impression is that they're each continuing from one of the above. Since the point of Days of Future past in the original comics and every adaptation I've heard of was to prevent the future timeline (in this case, X-Men 1-3), I'm wondering where they intend to go with that.
I read the forth one last month, and it was amazing. Really psyched up for a film version.
Much as I would like to ascribe to this reading, I don't think it's supported by the original movie. Even before all the bad stuff goes down, he lets a few Jotuns into Asgard as "a bit of fun," and to take Thor down a few pegs. You could argue the latter was a public service, given the size of Thor's ego at the time, but he still got those Jotuns killed needlessly, and by extension, the Asgardians they killed when they first arrived. He also had no compunction about going with Thor, Sif, and the Warriors Three to Jotunheim and cutting a swath through their ranks in retaliation for the invasion he himself had precipitated.
If anything, I think his reasons for slipping into villainy and his behavior since then make him more sympathetic than he was when he was on the side of the good guys.
Exactly. *sigh*
Re: Part 1
Date: 2013-12-15 03:18 pm (UTC)Ah. So it's sort of like a Continuity Reboot, in a way.
And I sadly haven't finished the fourth one (it was kind of sad and all), but from what I did read, it was awesome. And yes, very much psyched for the film version!
Yeah, there's definitely that, unfortunately. I was mostly referring to how close Thor and Loki were before the whole Jotun thing, but yeah...very good point.
Indeed. I think his reasons for slipping into villainy -- even though what he did was horrible, and, to put it mildly, he definitely deserved a good telling off for it to put it mildly, one can still feel for him. I don't really subscribe to the idea of Odin being a terrible father like some of the fandom does -- from what I saw, I think he was a decent if strict one. I could be mistaken though -- but I do feel sorry for Loki. I mean, like TV Tropes said, what he found out about his true parentage is a lot like a kid finding out he's the boogeyman. I think that's really how you do a sympathetic villain -- give them reasons for their actions, but don't sugarcoat the actions themselves. And don't make them any less of a force to be reckoned with. It's what I hope to do with my sympathetic villains at least (although I do worry sometimes if I'm making them too soft).
Re: Part 1
Date: 2013-12-16 03:00 pm (UTC)That's what it looks like to me. Trailers have been known to lead people amiss. I dunno if they'd really be willing to throw out all the actors from 1-3 like that. On the other hand, they threw out a couple in 3, and they may feel some of the others (Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellen) are growing too old for the roles (in any case, they get to keep Hugh Jackman).
It was, indeed; both. Rose kicks all kind of ass, and I was a little shocked at the depth of emotion Mead managed to wring out of her material. (After reading the book to the end, I'm pretty sure the series is going to have the a happy ending - but that getting there is not going to be easy. I'm pretty sure I saw the series listed on TV Tropes once as an example of Earn Your Happy Ending, and that's certainly how it looks to me at this point.)
Ah, okay. It's been a while since I've seen Thor and I'd have to have another look at it. From what I remember, though ... I also don't recall being particularly struck by the closeness of their relationship until after Loki turned against him.
But yeah, the subtext of the following material is that they were close at one time, whether or not that was shown in the movie itself.
That's a very good description.
And I hear where you're coming from in terms of writing well. Fortunately, another one of the benefits of writing is that (if we set our minds to it), we're constantly honing our craft. We don't have to get it right immediately out of the gate, we just have to keep getting better.
Re: Part 1
Date: 2013-12-16 09:47 pm (UTC)And yes, Rose is awesome. And yeah, I think Earn Your Happy Ending is definitely going to be the major case for this.
Yeah, pretty much. Mostly, I remember the sort of more casual scenes with Thor and Loki sort of...well, being brothers, if not in blood. I'm mostly going by memory there.
And thanks!
And that's very true. And thanks again. That really meant a lot to me. :)
Re: Part 1
Date: 2013-12-16 10:39 pm (UTC)So am I, so it could go either way, really.
Part 2
Date: 2013-12-11 12:36 am (UTC)The LOTR backstory was indeed great (and actually makes quite a lot of sense, when you consider they have a shared source for their inspiration: Norse Mythology). As a Star Wars fan, I think it's pretty cool the way they essentially recycled the invasion of the Jedi Temple sequence from the Deceived trailer for "The Old Republic" for the attack on Asgard.
Something else which I think my sisters especially appreciated was that all the fanservice in the movie was directed at the Female Gaze. (They like to bring up the part on the Tube where the woman "accidentally" bumps into Thor's large, muscular chest, to which he responds with just a sort of knowing look.)
I also think that the balance of drama and comic relief in this movie was as close to perfect as I have seen in any movie or television show ever; and I think the part where that really came through for me was during the climax.
I completely missed that Loki was putting on act both when he appeared to turn on Thor, and when he was impersonating Odin (though I should've seen it coming the second time, at least, as I knew for sure he wasn't really dead). My sisters weren't taken in for a second, though, which I think undermined the effect for them.
Unfortunately, I think The Dark World also had some serious missteps which prevented it from being as great as it really should've been. Apart from being incredibly white and aggressively straight, and despite the awesomeness of the female characters and all the fanservice, the film wasn't as feminist as it initially shaped up to be.
Frigga was indeed awesome against Malekith, but she's still ultimately a Woman in the Refrigerator. Also, I find it significant that whereas when male characters such as Boromir or Agent Coulson get a Dying Moment of Awesome, they go down fighting, while Frigga was first captured and rendered helpless by Kurse, then killed.
I was a bit uncomfortable with way Ian rescuing Darcy caused her to start making out with him (because I think it ties into some unhealthy cultural narratives about romance and gender relations). More broadly, I was annoyed that while in this movie men are the Rescuers of Women (Thor, Loki, even Dr. Selvig and Ian), the reverse is never the case except for one brief sequence with Sif and Thor at the very beginning. Jane and Darcy are great, but they never get the chance to display life saving heroics the way practically every male character does at some point.
The movie was great, but it came so close to being substantially greater and ultimately failed to do so, which is too bad.
(My sister KorraWP also had a criticism that action sequences in the movie were too same-y, in that it was like a big climactic battle every single time. She seems to be the only one who felt that way about it, though - it certainly wasn't my reaction.)
(Also, I expect Nash's show is a lot more interesting in the Marvelverse. What a tie-in that would make.)
Re: Part 2
Date: 2013-12-11 01:53 am (UTC)And yeah, that's a good question regarding why Sif would trust the Collector with the Aether. My guess was that the Collector was some sort of Wolf In Sheep's Clothing to the Asgardians -- someone who seemed to be an ally, but really wasn't. (Although yeah, between what you mentioned about Saruman in THE HOBBIT, as well as this scene -- why do people keep trusting Obviously Evil people? I'm thinking they should just build in an Evil Detector or something to pick up on those Obviously Evil people)
But yeah, I'm definitely interested in seeing where this is going with the Infinity Gems analogues and whatnot. The Marvel Cinematic Films really do feel like a giant puzzle, don't they? All those different bits of backstory and Chekhov's Guns and Sequel Hooks and whatnot -- which is awesome. Seriously awesome. I quite like puzzles. :)
That sequence just looked fantastic. And yeah, that is pretty awesome. I remember reading that bit of trivia on TV Tropes and I was like, "Wait, really? That's awesome!"
And yeah, definitely agreed regarding the Female Gaze. And the drama and comic relief was definitely really well-done in the movie -- it really kept it from getting too dark and heavy, which I think is definitely needed considering the matter of Malekith and all. Honestly, I think that humor is definitely one of the most important things to have in fiction -- it can keep things from getting too dark, add life to things, etc. (I know that stuff like AVATAR THE LAST AIRBENDER definitely did a great job balancing that stuff as well)
And yeah, definitely agreed. And I see what you mean about Frigga -- I know there was a part of me that was kind of not exactly happy with her being killed off, not just because she was an awesome character, but there was another part of me that was like "Should she really be killed off just to provide angst for Thor, Loki and Odin?" I mean, their reactions were very well-done, but there was a part of me that was still very much bugged by it and wondering if there was a better way. (I know that was something I worried about because amongst other things... I will be honest, I've definitely been guilty of that stuff in the past in my writing. I've been trying to fix it, though) And yeah, that bit with her being sort of captured by Kurse was definitely kind of a letdown (although I do kind of find it interesting that in a way, Loki was kind of responsible for it. If he hadn't told Kurse where to go...yeah). I did love how she ultimately went out defying Malekith just by telling him that he couldn't have the Aether (and Malekith's response was just scary as hell), but yeah...that is a good question. I mean, with characters like Boromir and Coulson, like you said, they went down fighting like hell, and yet I can't say that I could find a similar example with a female character. (I'll have to look up some sometime)
There was the matter of Jane trying to save Thor, once in the Dark Elf realm and another time when she was trying to get him away from Malekith's collapsing ship, but yeah -- I really can't say there were many instances the female characters got to be the rescuers. Which kind of sucks, really.
Also, your sisters are awesome. Seriously. :)
And wouldn't that just be amazing? I mean, seriously! :D
Re: Part 2
Date: 2013-12-14 10:36 pm (UTC)I know, right?
Me too, and I also like patterns and self-contained works which can fit together into a larger whole. That's definitely one of the (lesser) details which thrills me about the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
I hear you there. I can't remember if I've ever been guilty of fridging a character like that (though I kinda think maybe I have), but if not, it's only because I didn't get far enough into the storyline I was working on to reach that point. I have one or two holdover scenarios from projects I originally dreamed up in my teens that are going to need some serious reworking if they're ever going to see the light of day.
Then again, one such storyline I reworked in my head several years ago, after I realized the unfortunate implications. Because of that re-tool, the character has become a personal favorite of mine, and her death scene probably the best one I have yet to write. I think that's part of the beauty of writing - we can take our embarrassing mistakes and refashion them into something incredible.
Gosh, yes, I'm sure there must be some of them out there, but definitely a lot rarer than their male counterparts.
Yeah, I don't really count those, because in neither instance was she allowed to succeed. I mean, yes, points for trying and all, but when compared to the actual saves that the men in the movie pull off, it doesn't exactly feel like the filmmakers are giving everybody fair treatment. *sigh*
They are, indeed.
Uh-huh. I'm imagining people poking around at the various pieces of debris left lying around after the Battle of New York or the Invasion of Greenwich, and Nash going something like:
"That is a piece of alien tech, from a realm of existence so far away it would make Einstein's brain hurt. It's part of an arsenal that levelled a good chunk of Manhattan like a breakfast pancake, and you haven't got the faintest idea what other qualities it may possess. The correct way to handle something like this is with a team of specialists equipped with lots of sensors, radiation detectors, robot arms, and rubber gloves. You do not just pick it up and start tossing it around like a f***ing football!"
Re: Part 2
Date: 2013-12-15 03:26 pm (UTC)Indeed! It's definitely something I'm starting to enjoy about the MCU. (That and from what I can gather, they really seem to love their fans, which is definitely a bonus in my eyes. :)
And yes, it really is amazing. (And said female character you mentioned...I'd love to know more about her!)
And yeah, unfortunately. *Sighs* Which really honestly sucks. I mean, the movie otherwise was pretty good with its female characters, but that part (and some other parts you brought up, which really are pretty problematic as well)...yeah, it's kind of sucky.
*Grins* Seriously, that is just *awesome*. I can so picture Nash saying that. :D
Re: Part 2
Date: 2013-12-16 03:30 pm (UTC)I first thought up the character to fulfill a specific purpose (basically, as a way of foreshadowing another, stronger character), and figured it would be appropriately tragic to kill her off once she'd done so. She's on the weaker end of the story's power scale, so I had her mortally wounded going up against a villain much stronger than herself.
As I initially envisioned the scenario, she fights the villain in order to save the life of a female anti-villain whom she knows will be important to the (male) hero, who in turn is important to saving the world. Then I realized that 1) I had her sacrificing herself for a man, and 2) I was planning the whole thing out from his perspective, having be about how all this effects him.
That obviously wouldn't do, and one day, I just sort of had an idea for how I could make the scene (and the character) work. First, I switch the emphasis from the male hero to the character herself, and make her death be about her character arc, rather than his. Second, I made it that instead of sacrificing her life for the anti-villain because the latter has a greater destiny, but because it's wrong to kill people on principle. (I was heavily influenced on this change by this article.)
Third, it occurred to me the character would be a great vehicle for exploring a lot of stuff which I think is cool in Nietzsche's philosophy (the little snippet it I got of it from my one college class on existentialism, that is). So, after the more powerful villain has taken her to pieces, she has some last words to the effect that, "yeah, this sucks and all, but it was the right thing to do and I regret nothing. And if the universe were to give me the whole thing to do all over again, I say: bring it on!"
So yeah: she still dies in this version, but because it's what has to happen for her story, not anyone else's, and she goes out like a boss.
Re: Part 2
Date: 2013-12-16 06:13 pm (UTC)Re: Part 2
Date: 2013-12-16 10:30 pm (UTC)But to reiterate the point of the story: all of that came about because I realized I had written (well, was planning to write) something pretty hideous, and tried to think about how I could retool the scenario into something more palatable. We can take even our screw-ups and reconfigure them into an advantage.
Re: Part 2
Date: 2013-12-20 08:17 pm (UTC)Definitely good luck with the first draft and all! And honestly, it sounds awesome. I can't wait to see more of that character. :)
And yes. Very much this.
Re: Part 2
Date: 2013-12-20 08:36 pm (UTC)Re: Part 2
Date: 2013-12-20 08:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-20 06:35 am (UTC)Saw The Hobbit 2 and it was great, as well. Bilbo telegraphs some interesting personality developments in it, and I like Freeman's portrayal of him a lot. It's funny, the book has that whimsical touch and the movie has so much less whimsy, but I still liked it. Kinda weird to see Evangeline Lilly as an elf, however. Her character came across well, I thought, for a Jackson OC.
no subject
Date: 2013-12-20 08:23 pm (UTC)And yes, Jane's a sweetheart. Seriously. I think it's also Natalie Portman herself shining through; she's just such a likable actress.
And Desolation of Smaug sounds *awesome*. From what you told me, I can't wait to see it. :D